Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[PyroFN]

Comic book Phoenix/Jean got killed by Xorn posing as Magneto. She is not invincible. Of course if the writers in Dr. Strange 2 decide Wanda after reading the Darkhold can take her own, then obviously that is what will happen. Whoever the writers want to win, will win.

Okay, this is a bad take. I’m sorry, it just is. Of course the writers dictate what happens in the story, but we are not going off of the thoughts that we will never know. We are discussing this based on what existing information we have. We don’t know what the Darkhold will teach Wanda. We don’t know how much her powers grew after reading it. We are only going by what information is available, which is what Wanda showed from Age of Ultron to WandaVsion. Based on that information is how I am making my analysis. You mentioning Jean dying in the comics has no bearing on the conclusion to this discussion. The result still remains, since MCU Wanda has never generated enough power equating to a planetary level emp. Nor has she ever directed her powers so finedly to target the inner workings of someone else’s body like Xorn did.

And onto the point you made regarding Xorn vs Phoenix, I’m baffled that it makes sense to you that a planetary grade electromagnetic attack would kill someone who has been inside stars and eaten them, escaping the resulting supernova unscathed, which destroyed the star system it inhabited.

I am not saying Phoenix is invincible, so mentioning such is not only baffling, it is irrelevant.

[PyroFN]

Aren't Wanda and Jean a bit above Ororo in power levels?

Her Hadari Yao form has made rounds in the Storm community for a while now regarding her killing a universal threat and calming a raging storm in an alternate dimension. The details are a bit fuzzy.

It’s generally still agreed that Phoenix still wins based on her control over life and death and energy absorbing abilities. Wanda….I’ve not looked at discussions regarding her and Storm.

[fridric]

She may have been the first mutant to be classified as having just that - "infinite mental powers" - in 1968...



She's a 7...



7 = "Nearly infinite mental powers; immeasurable." (It does say "nearly," so you do have somewhat of a point.)

I think you can't read properly the Power Ratings on these cards, mental ability=mental power=mental talent, is it too complicated? Jean has 2 mental abilities/powers/talents(LV 6) not an infinity of abilities/powers/talents(LV 7)!
With the Hickman's definition, it is said she's an Omega Level in TP but it talks about her potential from this particular power. As I wrote it you confused her having an infinite potential in TP, with her having an infinite NUMBER of abilities/powers/talents which IS NOT THE SAME THING!
Also using that scan is a huge mistake from you because the term "infinite mental powers" doesn't indicate the same thing than the Power Ratings used on those cards because for them: mental ability=mental power=mental talent, right?

[Omega_DCD]

Yep. I never saw Jean’s tk being downgraded in this era. I’m pretty sure her tk grew since her early days. She has a lot of cool tk moments in X-factor imo. Most are basic stuff like moving things or heavy lifting stuff but still good. I like the basic uses of tk more than abstract molecular stuff but that’s just me. I do like that Jean can do both though.

One of my favorite X-Factor era Jean feats is her multi-tasting and going from lifting a helicopter and loading everyone inside, to also a fine control internal feat by stopping Rictor's heart for a moment

[WallStreeter]

Okay, this is a bad take. I’m sorry, it just is. Of course the writers dictate what happens in the story, but we are not going off of the thoughts that we will never know. We are discussing this based on what existing information we have. We don’t know what the Darkhold will teach Wanda. We don’t know how much her powers grew after reading it. We are only going by what information is available, which is what Wanda showed from Age of Ultron to WandaVsion. Based on that information is how I am making my analysis. You mentioning Jean dying in the comics has no bearing on the conclusion to this discussion. The result still remains, since MCU Wanda has never generated enough power equating to a planetary level emp. Nor has she ever directed her powers so finedly to target the inner workings of someone else’s body like Xorn did.

And onto the point you made regarding Xorn vs Phoenix, I’m baffled that it makes sense to you that a planetary grade electromagnetic attack would kill someone who has been inside stars and eaten them, escaping the resulting supernova unscathed, which destroyed the star system it inhabited.

I am not saying Phoenix is invincible, so mentioning such is not only baffling, it is irrelevant.

The fact that Phoenix/Jean got killed by Xorn is a literal demonstration the fight will go however the writers or directors want it to go.

Wanda is a popular character and the main villain of Dr. Strange too. Phoenix/Jean is not going to be able to instantly beat her. That’s now how these things work.

[Mercury]

I think you can't read properly the Power Ratings on these cards, mental ability=mental power=mental talent, is it too complicated?

I think the one that may be having problems "read[ing] properly" is you. A) She was classified as having "infinite mental powers" - that's a direct quote - by Computo in 1968. Additionally, the requirements for being a level 7 in the Jim Lee card set are "Nearly infinite mental powers; immeasurable," per the power levels card key. Finally, in this particular card set, mental powers could be referring to either or both the sub-powers umbrellaed under, in her case, telepathy and telekinesis, of which there are myriad and maybe even infinite amounts, and her level of power in telepathy, which has an "undefinable upper limit," i.e., is infinite.

One of my favorite X-Factor era Jean feats is her multi-tasting and going from lifting a helicopter and loading everyone inside, to also a fine control internal feat by stopping Rictor's heart for a moment

Thank you for posting this! I love seeing the "cut the flow of blood to his brain" feat so early on. ;p

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

People really think they are going to introduce the Phoenix as a throwaway guest spot? I wouldn't bet on it.

[Daedra]

People really think they are going to introduce the Phoenix as a throwaway guest spot? I wouldn't bet on it.

Why not? I’m also expecting the whole cast (villains included) to sing a song while dancing for the movie finale.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Why not? I’m also expecting the whole cast (villains included) to sing a song while dancing for the movie the finale.

Didn't that more or less happen in Guardians of the Galaxy? Lol

[Devaishwarya]

X-Factor Jean is my favourite, with New X-Men Jean a very, very close second, and Krakoa/X-Men Jean in third.

As noted before...I'm not a great fan of Claremont/Byrne's Jean

[Daedra]

Didn't that more or less happen in Guardians of the Galaxy? Lol

Was it the first of the second? They were never my cup of tea

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Was it the first of the second? They were never my cup of tea

I've never watched them, but I remember reactions to a dance scene being a thing.

I've only seen a good 6, maybe, out of 10000 marvel movies.

They bought the characters I care about so going forward I will be a bit more invested lol

[Daedra]

I've never watched them, but I remember reactions to a dance scene being a thing.

I've only seen a good 6, maybe, out of 10000 marvel movies.

They bought the characters I care about so going forward I will be a bit more invested lol

Same here, I usually tend to avoid marvel’s cringiest movies

[WallStreeter]

People really think they are going to introduce the Phoenix as a throwaway guest spot? I wouldn't bet on it.

Fox did just that in X-Men the Last Stand. Of course the MCU would introduce the Phoenix like this?

[PyroFN]

The fact that Phoenix/Jean got killed by Xorn is a literal demonstration the fight will go however the writers or directors want it to go.

Wanda is a popular character and the main villain of Dr. Strange too. Phoenix/Jean is not going to be able to instantly beat her. That’s now how these things work.

It’s a possibility. Not an inevitability. We don’t know what the story will have.

But the conversation is not based on what-if Wanda had a sudden upgrade. It’s based on what she’s shown so far. So, again, this conversation stating “writers write what they want” is irrelevant. You’re not proving Wanda stands a chance by stating, “but it could happen”.