Lucas Bishop: The Last X-Man Appreciation 2021!

[Marvell2100]

I didn't forget about his future, I was finding an equivalency between their experiences. We as an outsider can say that Bishop's life was harder, but it's kind of messed up to say to somebody that my pain was more painful than yours when they've both lived for over a decade in a time where they've seen the result of the oppression they're fighting.



I don't remember the context entirely, but Cyclops wasn't preaching about oppression, he was speaking on the X-Men's role in the Civil War and the SRA and how Bishop could either stand by them or go off on his own.

Edit: I just re-read that part of the issue. Cyclops allowed the 198 to leave the mansion during a riot to avoid any of them dying whereas Bishop wanted them contained, both using the argument of a Sentinel ruled future to justify their arguments. Bishop accused Cyclops of not being as good a leader with Emma Frost guiding him and not Professor X and Cyclops pointed out to Bishop that he was acting subversively against them by having had also joined the O*N*E*. Now, Bishop wasn't wrong because Cyclops hasn't actually lived through a future like Bishop's, but Bishop arguing that Cyclops hasn't seen real oppression is also wrong.

It's the old freedom vs security question. Cyclops believes that living under the government's security will lead to Sentinel rule and Bishop believes that unless mutants police themselves for the government, the Sentinels will be called to reign them in. Having seen Bishop's future, we know that's not why the Sentinels ruled there but we do know that's why they didn't get a second reign.

You have to look at it in the context of Bishop went through. He was born and raised in a mutant concentration camp. He didn't have a choice of choosing how he wanted to live growing up until the Summers Rebellion.

[Drexelhand]

You have to look at it in the context of Bishop went through. He was born and raised in a mutant concentration camp. He didn't have a choice of choosing how he wanted to live growing up until the Summers Rebellion.

And who led that rebellion?

[Marvell2100]

And who led that rebellion?

Scott didn't lead that rebellion until much later in life so it's not the same Scott Summers. The reality of Bishop's future and the current reality are different altogether. Mutants still have freedom and aren't living in concentration camps.

[Drexelhand]

Scott didn't lead that rebellion until much later in life so it's not the same Scott Summers. The reality of Bishop's future and the current reality are different altogether. Mutants still have freedom and aren't living in concentration camps.

At that time, though, the O*N*E* had the Xavier Estate as a camp meant to house the 198 and they had very limited rights. They weren't allowed to leave except for supervision and that's what Bishop was saying was right. Does it sound out of character for Bishop? Yes, but again, this is when they were radicalizing him in preparation for Hope Summers.

[Marvell2100]

At that time, though, the O*N*E* had the Xavier Estate as a camp meant to house the 198 and they had very limited rights. They weren't allowed to leave except for supervision and that's what Bishop was saying was right. Does it sound out of character for Bishop? Yes, but again, this is when they were radicalizing him in preparation for Hope Summers.

Limited rights as opposed to being branded with an M on your face?

But hey, we have differing opinions and I'll just leave it at that.

[Drexelhand]

Limited rights as opposed to being branded with an M on your face?

But hey, we have differing opinions and I'll just leave it at that.

I think it's good that we have differing opinions, it leads to good discussion on one of our favorite characters here in Bishop. Ironically enough, we've probably extrapolated more about Cyclops and Bishop than that scene ever meant.

[Rang10]

It's called a situational equivalency, situation being where the white man and the black man were oppressed by the blue man. He absolutely has a right to talk about oppression when he fights it every day. There are many different kinds of oppression. Hell, you can be oppressed by your own race, look at the farmers in India right now. So stop trying to make this a racial issue, it's not. The oppression Bishop was talking about was genetic oppression, and he and Cyclops both lived for a long time under Apocalypse experiencing just that.

They are equivalent or not, there isn't situtional equivalency. One of the resasons X-men fail as minority alegory that it is always white character telling how opressed they are, it is good that Bishop shut down when a white character claimed it. Scott wasn't close to what Bishop lived and still live as black man.

[Drexelhand]

They are equivalent or not, there isn't situtional equivalency. One of the resasons X-men fail as minority alegory that it is always white character telling how opressed they are, it is good that Bishop shut down when a white character claimed it. Scott wasn't close to what Bishop lived and still live as black man.

Dude, stop it. Did you even read the issue? Do you even know Cyclops' biography? The first time he left his orphanage, a mob of people came after him to try and lynch him. Would that happen to a white person in real life? No. But this isn't real life, it's a fantasy. It's fake. Not real.

It seems like you have a hate boner for the idea that white people might understand oppression.

[Rang10]

Dude, stop it. Did you even read the issue? Do you even know Cyclops' biography? The first time he left his orphanage, a mob of people came after him to try and lynch him. Would that happen to a white person in real life? No. But this isn't real life, it's a fantasy. It's fake. Not real.

It seems like you have a hate boner for the idea that white people might understand oppression.

Understand opression is one thing, but thinking they can give a opinion to a black man is another.

Well i didn't read the story, there must be a explanation for that as mutants weren't public knowledge when Scott was a kid.

[Drexelhand]

Understand opression is one thing, but thinking they can give a opinion to a black man is another.

Well i didn't read the story, there must be a explanation for that as mutants weren't public knowledge when Scott was a kid.

And to this, I will wholeheartedly tell you that I believe that you are fundamentally wrong and being close minded and ignorant. I see no value in having any further discussion with you.

[Killerbee911]

Dude, stop it. Did you even read the issue? Do you even know Cyclops' biography? The first time he left his orphanage, a mob of people came after him to try and lynch him. Would that happen to a white person in real life? No. But this isn't real life, it's a fantasy. It's fake. Not real.

It seems like you have a hate boner for the idea that white people might understand oppression.

You real don't understand, It is silly to preach to black man about oppression. You are going to do "but but Cyclops was oppressed too" thing, Cyclops can live a normal life anywhere he decides to go. Do realize how stupid for him try comparing experiences, Black skin gets treated like if the person has optic blasts. And for context what you should do in that situation if Holocaust survivor is talking about how hard thing for them as a black person I am not going to jump in go "well we had slavery, jim crow era and bunch of other bs". No I would be quiet because there is a time to shut the hell up and listen. It is most white privilege thing to jump in try to compare things.

[Drexelhand]

You real don't understand, It is silly to preach to black man about oppression. You are going to do "but but Cyclops was oppressed too" thing, Cyclops can live a normal life anywhere he decides to go. Do realize how stupid for him try comparing experiences, Black skin gets treated like if the person has optic blasts. And for context what you should do in that situation if Holocaust survivor is talking about how hard thing for them as a black person I am not going to jump in go "well we had slavery, jim crow era and bunch of other bs". No I would be quiet because there is a time to shut the hell up and listen. It is most white privilege thing to jump in try to compare things.

I am not a white person. My people were targeted for eradication not too long ago with the majority putting burning tires around our necks and right now, it feels like they still are and want to do so again. Hell, my people were gunned down by white people in the 1920s. But that doesn't mean I can't understand that Cyclops is not real. He's a fantasy character. In his world, he's not a white human, he's a white mutant who wears red glasses that identify him as an outsider. He's the person who was experimented on in an orphanage for most of his teenage years, he got chased by a lynch mob when he left and was then recruited into an organization devoted to fighting those who hate and fear him.

Does he have the advantage of being born white skinned? Yes, and I'm not arguing that he does not. I argued that after having lived for ten years under the oppressive regime of Apocalypse, he has common ground with Bishop, who lived for twenty years under the regime of Apocalypse and that they both have some degree of understanding and Bishop shouldn't just disregard his opinion about the O*N*E* just because he grew up in a future that Cyclops has only ever heard of. Are you really going to argue that Bishop had it worse than Cyclops in a world ruled by Apocalypse - a man whose skin is blue - because he was black?

Cyclops argued that the X-Men didn't need the assistance of the O*N*E* or to escalate issues with them because he believed it would only lead to a Sentinel lead future where they'd be tantamount to Hounds, something we saw the government preparing for in X-Factor after Forge took over. Bishop argued that since the O*N*E* had a link to the president, they could avoid that very future by corralling mutant violence by self-policing. Bishop refused to believe Cyclops had any knowledge of that kind of oppression and he was right: Cyclops does not. But no oppression at all? Like I've said, he and Cyclops did both struggle under Apocalypse. Having looked into it more, I'll recant what I said before if it contradicts this and I'll say: the story presented it as a Professor X and Magneto situation where if they had come together and found a solution with middle ground, it would have been best for everyone but with them divided, they pushed each other to the extreme.

Besides, if Cyclops was talking to Manifold, then yeah, you'd maybe have a better point. But he was talking with Bishop, a man who comes from a hundred years in the future where we have little context about the racial issues. Maybe they're worse, maybe they're not. And I don't believe we've ever had a panel where Bishop compares racism in the future to what he faces now in the past.

As for your point about comparing experiences, a little bit back I said this:

I didn't forget about his future, I was finding an equivalency between their experiences. We as an outsider can say that Bishop's life was harder, but it's kind of messed up to say to somebody that my pain was more painful than yours when they've both lived for over a decade in a time where they've seen the result of the oppression they're fighting.

[Anthony Shaw]

Agreed. Making the cover of Wizard Magazine is truly an honor (IMHO):

Along with getting rid of his XSE uniform and replacing it with a generic outfit with a metallic collar attached.

Yeah, I thought Bishop was gonna end up as a major player in the X-Men franchise.

Well, not the first time I've been wrong before.


I always think "protect ya neck" when the metallic collar comes up.

[Anthony Shaw]

Oh, I love it! The mullet was rocking!

Now see, this is why he's a great character. How many other X-Men besides Logan would grab Scott by the face and basically tell him to shut up.

[Anthony Shaw]

Bishop was entirely in the wrong here.

Does he know more about oppression than Cyclops, having had lived for twenty years in the Age of Apocalypse? Yes. But Cyclops also lived for ten years under Apocalypse's regime when he raised Cable. He's not an idiot, and yet Bishop treating him and others like they were set the stage for him trying to kill Hope.

I don't agree with your assessment. Others have already debated, so I'd rather not go in circles.

Funny enough, the scene is giving me Bane vibes.