The Avengers Appreciation 2021

[Marvell2100]

I am not even sure what is the canon explanation now... was that the real Tony? A Space Phantom? What happened to Teen Tony? Did he warp into Heroes Reborn's adult Tony, and stayed that way after coming back? So, the original Tony Stark died a villain, and the current one only exists since Onslaught? Have everybody forgotten that? Why do they act like this Tony Stark is the original founding Avenger...?

I know the real explanation is that Marvel is trying to pretend the Crossing never happened and don't want us to think about it... but man, they could at least have made up some decent retcon, because the current canon is a mess...

I don't even try to understand it. Iirc, Teen Tony sacrificed himself to bring back the real Tony from an earlier point in time before he went all evil. Like I said, I've never gone back to re-read The Crossing because it was a real disservice to Tony

[Habis]

I don't even try to understand it. Iirc, Teen Tony sacrificed himself to bring back the real Tony from an earlier point in time before he went all evil. Like I said, I've never gone back to re-read The Crossing because it was a real disservice to Tony

Here and here it is implied that the new Tony Stark isn't either the original founding Avenger or Teen Tony, but a construct cobbled together by Franklin Richards from Crossing!Tony, Teen!Tony and HeroesReborn!Tony...

Funny how easily they forgave Tony because he was being controlled by Kang, while Hank Pym can't ever be forgiven for what he did while insane...

[K7P5V]

Here and here it is implied that the new Tony Stark isn't either the original founding Avenger nor Teen Tony, but a construct cobbled together by Franklin Richards from Crossing!Tony, Teen!Tony and HeroesReborn!Tony...

Funny how easily they forgave Tony because he was being controlled by Kang, while Hank Pym can't ever be forgiven for what he did while insane...

Say what you will about that time period, but I LOVE how Ian Churchill drew the Avengers! Truly classic (IMHO):

[ARkadelphia]

Harras was also barely involved with the book by then. I wonder if he also wasn't on board with many of the storypoints.

Peace

I always assumed Harras was primarily responsible for this storyline. If it wasn’t him, then who was it?

[ARkadelphia]

I feel like Busiek tried his best to make it all make sense...

Busiek may very well be my favorite writer of all time, but I thought has answer was lazy and didn’t make a whole lot of sense here.

[gurkle]

I always assumed Harras was primarily responsible for this storyline. If it wasn’t him, then who was it?

Harras was still the main writer of the book, though he was already sharing some scripting duties with Terry Kavanagh. But just like the stories of Harras's X-books were largely written by editorial, I think the Avengers editorial team probably had a lot to do with the shape of the story, particularly Teen Tony. Harras deserves blame but also Mark Gruenwald, who was the Avengers group editor, and Ralph Macchio and Nel Yomtov, who were editing the books involved.

[Kurt Busiek]

Busiek may very well be my favorite writer of all time, but I thought has answer was lazy and didn’t make a whole lot of sense here.

I was going to cover it all in a 40-page special called LOOK BACK IN ARMOR, but it got kind of editorially abandoned, so I got to explain it in about two or three panels of a backup story instead.

kdb

[ARkadelphia]

I was going to cover it all in a 40-page special called LOOK BACK IN ARMOR, but it got kind of editorially abandoned, so I got to explain it in about two or three panels of a backup story instead.

kdb

Thanks for the explanation. Clearly “lazy” was a poor choice of word. I would have really liked to have read that abandoned story.

[Habis]

My main objection is, Tony's past had been revisited many times since then, and it is very important to some storylines... ant it feels weird because that is NOT the current Tony's past... current Tony didn't found the Avengers together with Pym, Janet, Hulk and Thor; he isn't the adopted son of Howard Stark; he isn't the adopted brother of Arno Stark, or the biological son of Jude; he didn't study in Cambrige; he wasn't wounded in Korea or Vietnam or Afghanistan or whenever and he didn't work with Ho Yinsen to create the first Iron Man armor and escape; he didn't mess with the bomb that made Bruce Banner into Hulk and he never dated the Wasp while Hank Pym was in prison...

The current Tony Stark is an idealized copy made by Franklin, but that is never acknowledged...

[Nomads1]

I always assumed Harras was primarily responsible for this storyline. If it wasn’t him, then who was it?

Harras was still the main writer of the book, though he was already sharing some scripting duties with Terry Kavanagh. But just like the stories of Harras's X-books were largely written by editorial, I think the Avengers editorial team probably had a lot to do with the shape of the story, particularly Teen Tony. Harras deserves blame but also Mark Gruenwald, who was the Avengers group editor, and Ralph Macchio and Nel Yomtov, who were editing the books involved.

I think Kavanagh was the main driving force back then. He even took up the writing chores after Harras officially left (I'd have to check to see which issue his name started showing up on the credits), and it was not good. Then Waid came in for about 3 issues, before the book jumped to the Heroes Return event.

Peace

[ARkadelphia]

I think Kavanagh was the main driving force back then. He even took up the writing chores after Harras officially left (I'd have to check to see which issue his name started showing up on the credits), and it was not good. Then Waid came in for about 3 issues, before the book jumped to the Heroes Return event.

Peace

Yeah. I remember Kavanaugh now. Wasn’t he also at least partly responsible for Ben Reilly becoming the “real” Spider-man during the clone saga?

[gurkle]

I just checked and Harras and Kavanagh are credited as co-plotters on the Avengers issues, with Kavanagh doing most of the scripts, but Harras did the script (from the Harras/Kavanagh plot) to Avengers 391 and "Timeslide," where Teen Tony became a thing. So at the very least he was involved to the end of the story.

[Marvell2100]

I think Kavanagh was the main driving force back then. He even took up the writing chores after Harras officially left (I'd have to check to see which issue his name started showing up on the credits), and it was not good. Then Waid came in for about 3 issues, before the book jumped to the Heroes Return event.

Peace

Kavanaugh was the writer.

[Tony Stark]

I was going to cover it all in a 40-page special called LOOK BACK IN ARMOR, but it got kind of editorially abandoned, so I got to explain it in about two or three panels of a backup story instead.

kdb

I wish you could have got a chance to do the 40 page special. I loved all your work on my hero.

[CosmiComic]

My main objection is, Tony's past had been revisited many times since then, and it is very important to some storylines... ant it feels weird because that is NOT the current Tony's past... current Tony didn't found the Avengers together with Pym, Janet, Hulk and Thor; he isn't the adopted son of Howard Stark; he isn't the adopted brother of Arno Stark, or the biological son of Jude; he didn't study in Cambrige; he wasn't wounded in Korea or Vietnam or Afghanistan or whenever and he didn't work with Ho Yinsen to create the first Iron Man armor and escape; he didn't mess with the bomb that made Bruce Banner into Hulk and he never dated the Wasp while Hank Pym was in prison...

The current Tony Stark is an idealized copy made by Franklin, but that is never acknowledged...

Hoe long before the real one comes back?