YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Ezyo1000]

Very well said. Shuri's backstory is similar to T'Challa's though less compelling, and Okoye seems something of a blank slate today. Tosin has a potential interesting backstory, but only in relation to Wakanda, and not the rest of the world really, unlike T'Challa. I do think when Shuri took on the duties of BP in the comics that did give her an interesting opportunity to challenge and expand her character. I don't care as much about the powers that Coates (?) gave her, and Marvel doesn't seem to be doing much with those. I don't think they alone make her a standout character.

Depending on the origin we follow, Shuri really doesn't have the same backstory at all. Hudlins version she never meets T'Chaka, and the latest rise/ other version she is just a small child so her memories will be pretty vague. Maybe slightly more compelling than Hudlins but not much all the same. Her best showings were under Hickman where she truly felt different for. T'Challa, unfortunately she has been a parasite ever since and they regressed her development.

Tosin... Kinda. His backstory is still pretty basic and just copied version of the Jabari except they use in the mystical sense. But it's no different than the Jabari, except they are somehow bigger smug a**holes with no sense of appreciation for ehere they reside sbdbhoe lucky theybarnrthst the golden coty has protected them fornalk this time.

He had the chance to be shown as a misguided but we'll intentioned new hero and instead has been shown as a toxic, nationalist, fake oppressed POS who needs to DESPERATELY get checked... HARD. First by a villain (physically) then by T'Challa (morally) then maybe he can be used after that

[Emperorjones]

Depending on the origin we follow, Shuri really doesn't have the same backstory at all. Hudlins version she never meets T'Chaka, and the latest rise/ other version she is just a small child so her memories will be pretty vague. Maybe slightly more compelling than Hudlins but not much all the same. Her best showings were under Hickman where she truly felt different for. T'Challa, unfortunately she has been a parasite ever since and they regressed her development.

Tosin... Kinda. His backstory is still pretty basic and just copied version of the Jabari except they use in the mystical sense. But it's no different than the Jabari, except they are somehow bigger smug a**holes with no sense of appreciation for ehere they reside sbdbhoe lucky theybarnrthst the golden coty has protected them fornalk this time.

He had the chance to be shown as a misguided but we'll intentioned new hero and instead has been shown as a toxic, nationalist, fake oppressed POS who needs to DESPERATELY get checked... HARD. First by a villain (physically) then by T'Challa (morally) then maybe he can be used after that

Couldn't remember if Shuri knew T'Chaka at all in the comics. When it comes to her, I read a great deal of Hudlin and Maberry, but not much of Hickman's take on Shuri or T'Challa. I am curious to know how Hickman made her different. Of what I read, I cared the least for Maberry giving Shuri a Paris Hilton past and also rage issues, though I was fine with how Hudlin and Maberry (at first) had Shuri as a young regent/BP trying to find her way while also seeking to avenge T'Challa and protect Wakanda.

Hadn't considered the comparisons between Tosin and the Jabari, but I guess it's like Marvel and the BP writers they choose can't go beyond variations of well-worn themes or tropes. I would be fine with T'Challa morally and physically checking Tosin. He hasn't flexed on anyone in far too long IMO.

[Amenra11]

Depending on the origin we follow, Shuri really doesn't have the same backstory at all. Hudlins version she never meets T'Chaka, and the latest rise/ other version she is just a small child so her memories will be pretty vague. Maybe slightly more compelling than Hudlins but not much all the same. Her best showings were under Hickman where she truly felt different for. T'Challa, unfortunately she has been a parasite ever since and they regressed her development.

Tosin... Kinda. His backstory is still pretty basic and just copied version of the Jabari except they use in the mystical sense. But it's no different than the Jabari, except they are somehow bigger smug a**holes with no sense of appreciation for ehere they reside sbdbhoe lucky theybarnrthst the golden coty has protected them fornalk this time.

He had the chance to be shown as a misguided but we'll intentioned new hero and instead has been shown as a toxic, nationalist, fake oppressed POS who needs to DESPERATELY get checked... HARD. First by a villain (physically) then by T'Challa (morally) then maybe he can be used after that

Based on the last issue I predict he will be beaten up by Shuri.

[BlackClaw]

An interesting question posed at 24:45.

[Ezyo1000]

Couldn't remember if Shuri knew T'Chaka at all in the comics. When it comes to her, I read a great deal of Hudlin and Maberry, but not much of Hickman's take on Shuri or T'Challa. I am curious to know how Hickman made her different. Of what I read, I cared the least for Maberry giving Shuri a Paris Hilton past and also rage issues, though I was fine with how Hudlin and Maberry (at first) had Shuri as a young regent/BP trying to find her way while also seeking to avenge T'Challa and protect Wakanda.

Hadn't considered the comparisons between Tosin and the Jabari, but I guess it's like Marvel and the BP writers they choose can't go beyond variations of well-worn themes or tropes. I would be fine with T'Challa morally and physically checking Tosin. He hasn't flexed on anyone in far too long IMO.

Shuri was still kinda a hot head under Hickman but she had more bite to her, it wasn't the rage issues she had under Mayberry, more like a matured version of his. She was also very much a Traditionalist and alot more brutal, possibly more so than T'Challa. In terms of her responses to issues. T'Challa was obviously more rounded than that and could approach situations with several options but it's was a clear difference between them.

I think BP Legends Shuri was 4 or so when T'Chaka died, (the most recent retelling) rise she was probably 2-3. But i feel Shuri should be different and not have the trauma at all. It should of been broken down this way:

Hunter: Feels guilty for not having security up to par and failing to protect him.

T'Challa: Feels guilty that he failed to avenge his father.

Jakarra: Hudlins version. Survivor's guilt, he feels like he should of swapped places with his dad and he been the one to survive instead.

Shuri: No trauma, out of all of them she is the most emotionally stable. And carries an air of optimism and hope that the others don't.

That gives a writer something to play with and development for the characters.

As for Tosin. Yes it's an exact rip. Both reject technology, both secluded themselves from Wakanda (Jabari lands, mute zone)
Both dislike T'Challa (atleast M'Baku has more reason than "iF ThE jAcKbOoT fITs") and both have power sets based on something other than tech or worshipping Bast.

Problem with T'Challa checking Tosin physically is that it would be spun in a way that reinforced his Dumb*** line about the jackboot "See? He strikes a CHILD and will do anything to keep you oppressed and under his command" so a villain doing it is okay because they are the villain.

I would have said villain mock Tosin though: "You claim to be Wakandas new protector? Has Wakanda fallen so far without T'Challa that they have mere children fighting for them? Boy, you can't even begin to fill the claws left by T'Challas absence. The Black Panther IS the source of Wakandas fighting spirit and for the first time ever, Wakanda has lost it's Panther, the greatest and most power one it's ever produced. And now, Wakanda will fall"

Something like that. Then T'Challa will verbally put him in his place, but with the wisdom that we saw in Hudlins run when he talks to Kshan or in BP vs Deadpool when he talks to the younger girl.

[Dariel81]

This recent Shuri hate is ridiculous she can definitely stay and continue to thrive along side her brother.

[BlackClaw]

This recent Shuri hate is ridiculous she can definitely stay and continue to thrive along side her brother.

Agreed. Like I said, keep her and Okoye, maybe bring back NuNakia, Monica Lynne, or revamp Zanda to be like Redjacks version as the love interest, have Kasper be the head HZ and we’ve got a well rounded cast. Maybe have M’Baku as the frenemy and of course a pet that can serve as the franchise’s Krypto would be nice. Lol.

[Marvell2100]

Honestly a competent writer could write a BP book that deals with his adventures and a satellite book on Wakanda about geopolitical issues but they seem to come to the wrong conclusions on how to depict both T'Challa and Wakanda.

Let's add an editor to the list. I still don't understand why these kind of pitches about a dysfunctional Wakanda/T'Challa failing constantly keep getting approved while others don't get the light of day.

If I didn't know any better I'd think they were trying to take T'Challa back to his Noble Negro days.

[Marvell2100]

This recent Shuri hate is ridiculous she can definitely stay and continue to thrive along side her brother.

Shuri isn't the problem. She doesn't need to be killed or anything like that. She needs her own thing that isn't tied to what T'Challa does.

I keep saying that she needs to be on a team somewhere. A new Ultimates or FF.

[Ekie]

I don't see any value whatsoever in Shuri as a concept.

No defined traits, no defined origin, no defined age range, nothing.
She'd be the first one I'd have a villain kill.

Any role she potentially fills can be replaced by Okoye because up to this point and going forward she has only been parasitic.

[Ekie]

Shuri isn't the problem. She doesn't need to be killed or anything like that. She needs her own thing that isn't tied to what T'Challa does.

I keep saying that she needs to be on a team somewhere. A new Ultimates or FF.

Which version of her?

[Nate Grey]

Ouch. Sounds like she needs to be rehabed...problem is she then becomes a new character. Isn't that a sort of paradox? That her defining trait is that has no defined traits, so if you give her some she's no longer Shuri?

[Mantis-Ray]

Well as of the movies she T'Challa's rebellious nerd-princess little sister

Which admitably now that I think about it her inclusion doesn't really add up with the fact that T'Challa's childhood was a lonely one after the death of his father and kidnapping of his mother.

Wait who took care of Shuri while she was growing up?

[Username taken]

I think Shuri was on path to becoming a thing before the Marvel decided to graft her MCU traits onto her.

When she was BP and leader of Wakanda, she was pretty obstinate and ruthless which set her apart from T’Challa. People forget that the decision to retaliate against Atlantis was Shuri’s decision and not T’Challa (which makes Coates and Ridley’s characterization of T’Challa even more stupid).

I actually think that Shuri could have been developed more in that line as opposed to the “nothing” character she’s become.

[Ezyo1000]

The problem with Shuri is the problem with the supporting cast as a whole. T'Challa was well defined from the get go. The rest after that for supporting characters (save Monica Lynn) have been nothing but "roles". Okoye the warrior, Shuri now the tech genius, and all her other traits are gone what little development she has had was stripped away, first by Coates, then the MCU. And now she is just "a character" and they pick and choose what traits of T'Challas she will take onto her own, but don't bother to expand it. They want her to be popular but lack the confidence to actually invest in here. So they make it a point for her to be relevant by taking T'Challas traits