YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Ezyo1000]

Would have been a whole different trajectory for BP. Possibly little to no involvement in AvX. Avengers probably would have hidden in just K'un Lun instead of Wakanda, no flooding. Would Hickman have BP front and center in New Avengers/Illuminati/TRO? Would have been harder to do if her were married to Monica and keeping her in the dark.

Biggest impact? Probably no Coates.

I don't think it would of affected T'Challa showing up in Hickmans NA or AvX. I don't think Namor flooding Wakanda had anything to do with his involvement with Storm TBH. In TRO I also think that T'Challa could of kept Monica in the dark just fine. I mean Reed did, it. So did BB. I would say that T'Challas marriage to Monica though would probably end with TRO though.

[Ezyo1000]

This a million times.

And people really need to read and understand this.

The "fake woke people" are also very problematic. It's the brand of liberalism that Malcolm X spoke about decades ago.

And shockingly, it seems that BP's handling is falling into this category. Seriously, Jason Aaron and Jonathan Hickman and Redjack are the last writers to give T'Challa any serious feats and two out of three of them are white.

Don't forget Ewing either.

I think it's WHO marvel is hiring to write BP and not the color of their skin. They kept at the literary angle for far too long instead of realizing they weren't it and dropping them for someone who actually cares

[Marvell2100]

I don't think it would of affected T'Challa showing up in Hickmans NA or AvX. I don't think Namor flooding Wakanda had anything to do with his involvement with Storm TBH. In TRO I also think that T'Challa could of kept Monica in the dark just fine. I mean Reed did, it. So did BB. I would say that T'Challas marriage to Monica though would probably end with TRO though.

I think things would have changed. I don't think T'Challa would have had as big a role in a lot stories or he would have been handled a lot differently.

I think Monica would have likely been a better partner, we wouldn't have had that bs Storm/BP feud, fight, whatever they call it and the stories that followed would have been much different.

[tliscord]

This a million times.

And people really need to read and understand this.

The "fake woke people" are also very problematic. It's the brand of liberalism that Malcolm X spoke about decades ago.

And shockingly, it seems that BP's handling is falling into this category. Seriously, Jason Aaron and Jonathan Hickman and Redjack are the last writers to give T'Challa any serious feats and two out of three of them are white.

I really am trying to understand the point of view here, but it still feels hollow. Why wouldn’t I want to read an arc devoted to loss of identity? Particularly as it applies to people of color and the history of slavery?

I thought Coates did a fine job albeit maybe a fraction too slow a roll out. Still I thought he hit the notes well.

You’ve all got me confused about this fake woke terminology, which of course was the inciting comment that infuriated me to no end. But everyone here seems to think I miss the mark. Ok.

The thread I pick up from folks here is that they preferred Priest’s badassery BP. Fair enough. I still think invoking woke terminology poisons the conversation and just seems so very close to bias if not overt racism. But that’s me. The older white dude who’s BLM yard sign was run over. Can’t help my outrage sometimes.

I don’t believe your either incels or struggle with basement diarrhea. Forgive me.

[tliscord]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-...black-panther/

I do still reserve the right to call bullshit when I see it. I’ll probably still get thrown out of the room here.

[Marvell2100]

I really am trying to understand the point of view here, but it still feels hollow. Why wouldn’t I want to read an arc devoted to loss of identity? Particularly as it applies to people of color and the history of slavery?

I thought Coates did a fine job albeit maybe a fraction too slow a roll out. Still I thought he hit the notes well.

You’ve all got me confused about this fake woke terminology, which of course was the inciting comment that infuriated me to no end. But everyone here seems to think I miss the mark. Ok.

The thread I pick up from folks here is that they preferred Priest’s badassery BP. Fair enough. I still think invoking woke terminology poisons the conversation and just seems so very close to bias if not overt racism. But that’s me. The older white dude who’s BLM yard sign was run over. Can’t help my outrage sometimes.

I don’t believe your either incels or struggle with basement diarrhea. Forgive me.

No, it's not badassery, it's competency, too reliant on supporting cast in too many situations and decision-making that's been the issue for BP in recent years. That's what people who have issues with T'Challa have been talking about.

Some writers alsopushed BP and Wakanda in a direction based on a misguided notion that both were somehow misogynistic based on their own beliefs, which in reality was not true since previous BP writers have shown strong women in leadership positions in Wakanda.

Then there was the idea that a king in modern day was a terrible idea based on grievances being unanswered by an uncaring monarchy which again is not proven by past stories and events.

Top that with the character being seemingly erased from the MCU at the height of his popularity, his accomplishments and attributes being diminished or distributed to other characters and to most fans, T'Challa has taken a backseat in his own narrative.

There is opportunity to every and all characters for growth and development but that should not come at the expense of T'Challa who is the main reason why people are interested in BP and Wakanda in the first place.

[MindofShadow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-...black-panther/

This is why I can't take any of this **** seriously

But like Wakanda’s newfound imperfections

IN the very first issue of Priest's run, it featured a Wakanda that was anything but perfect. THE FIRST ISSUE. They didn't even do one issue worth of reading. They are no better than the comicgate racists they cry on marvel forums about "wakanda is too perfect" "black panther is too perfect." They don't read the books either. They see 3 scans over 3 years and declare things. Just like this dude is doing.

The movie had Wakanda in a GD civil war... how is that perfect again?

Also, this article completely misses the point of Wakanda. Again. It is just more literary blacks doing what they do: universal praise of other literary blacks.

[skyvolt2000]

These mantle people casually forget that T'Challa has been the BP since inception, and these "Mantles" are never passed on. They are taken over, temporarily, but none of these characters assumes the mantle permanently. The only one I can think of is the white tiger and she barely shows up in the comics at all so i would hardly count that.

Most legacies get to be developed as themselves back in the day.

Thunderstrike and War Machine and US Agent.

Even Matrix Supergirl and the JSA gang.

Along with some still being promoted as themselves like Falcon and Winter Soldier.

Even Jean Paul Valley got a 100 issue run as Azrael and had it not been for New 52 Michael Lane might have too.

Same with Shuri as her 6 novels and new digital series (along with Panther, Miles & Oke & Falcon getting their own too) are showing.

I then I see people go "go support black movies!" F that man, I'm here for T'challa lol. I don't want scraps.

You mean the SAME folks who did NOT support Proud Mary? Birth of a Nation? Who will do the greatest gymnastic routines to NOT support Static's movie? Are MIA for 90% of the black movies that don't star Madea or enforce stereotypes or star Kevin Hart?

[Marvell2100]

This is why I can't take any of this **** seriously




IN the very first issue of Priest's run, it featured a Wakanda that was anything but perfect. THE FIRST ISSUE. They didn't even do one issue worth of reading. They are no better than the comicgate racists they cry on marvel forums about "wakanda is too perfect" "black panther is too perfect." They don't read the books either. They see 3 scans over 3 years and declare things. Just like this dude is doing.

The movie had Wakanda in a GD civil war... how is that perfect again?

Also, this article completely misses the point of Wakanda. Again. It is just more literary blacks doing what they do: universal praise of other literary blacks.

Sounds like the same Unfans from back in the day who would pop in thread to complain about how T'Challa was such a mary sue and Wakandans were racists.

Most, if not all, had never read a BP comic and got all their information from other posters or from reading an X-comic.

Then Coates comes along and all of a sudden "T'Challa is more humanized and relatable". That was utter bullshittery.

[tliscord]

No, it's not badassery, it's competency, too reliant on supporting cast in too many situations and decision-making that's been the issue for BP in recent years. That's what people who have issues with T'Challa have been talking about.

Some writers alsopushed BP and Wakanda in a direction based on a misguided notion that both were somehow misogynistic based on their own beliefs, which in reality was not true since previous BP writers have shown strong women in leadership positions in Wakanda.

Then there was the idea that a king in modern day was a terrible idea based on grievances being unanswered by an uncaring monarchy which again is not proven by past stories and events.

Top that with the character being seemingly erased from the MCU at the height of his popularity, his accomplishments and attributes being diminished or distributed to other characters and to most fans, T'Challa has taken a backseat in his own narrative.

There is opportunity to every and all characters for growth and development but that should not come at the expense of T'Challa who is the main reason why people are interested in BP and Wakanda in the first place.

Ok, why wouldn’t one want a story about modern monarchy? Sounds like good grist for the mill to me. How T’Challa reconciles that might be a good story?

I suppose he’s less competent as he questions himself.

Cap was sublimated by Brubaker’s pursuit of Bucky, and to a lesser extent Sharon, but there again it might not be everyone’s cup of tea.

It just feels a wee bit dramatic to conclude “they” are trying to emasculate your favorite character. And I suppose that’s a legit reason for the hate I sense here. But to return to Woke analogies it still feels … bad, I’m sorry.

[tliscord]

This is why I can't take any of this **** seriously




IN the very first issue of Priest's run, it featured a Wakanda that was anything but perfect. THE FIRST ISSUE. They didn't even do one issue worth of reading. They are no better than the comicgate racists they cry on marvel forums about "wakanda is too perfect" "black panther is too perfect." They don't read the books either. They see 3 scans over 3 years and declare things. Just like this dude is doing.

The movie had Wakanda in a GD civil war... how is that perfect again?

Also, this article completely misses the point of Wakanda. Again. It is just more literary blacks doing what they do: universal praise of other literary blacks.

What does it mean that literary blacks universally praise each other? Again, that feels really bad, I don’t know. It walks a line that to me is truly uncomfortable.

Those “fucking blacks”, right. Maybe you’d like to rephrase that a little. As a white guy it feels to me myopically white. I guess I’m ok with black writers celebrating black writers they find worthwhile … celebrating. Am I being bias here? I have never appreciated it as a “thing”.

When you read your comment now do you see how that tracks?

[skyvolt2000]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-...black-panther/

I do still reserve the right to call bullshit when I see it. I’ll probably still get thrown out of the room here.

This part right here your FIRST notice to not bother with this article.

Gone were the days of publishers being able to pat themselves on the back for creations such as the Puerto Rican/African American Spider-Man, Miles Morales, while not having someone who looked like Morales be a part of the creative process.

No research was done. NONE. I guess he forget Coates is writing about a character created by two WHITE GUYS.

Along with the fact Redjack's Mosaic, Hudlin's Shuri, Priest's Xero and Green Lantern Jo were created by BLACK folks. Along with Milestone. Lets not forget Damage Control and 90s Deathlok by McDuffie.

Funny a shot at Miles Morales and NOT Storm, Misty Knight, Luke Cage, Falcon, War Machine, Blade, John Stewart, Cyborg or Vixen.

But appointing more big names from here on out would be shutting out the few Black and proud who have made a name for themselves as comic book writers, such as Vita Ayala, Evan Narcisse, David Walker and Eve Ewing. Sure, Ridley has comics experience. But when will these other stars burn bright enough to make an attempt at Wakandan glory?

John Ridley is an OSCAR WINNER. Evan Narcisse has done BP work. David Walker is at DC and Image with a movie deal for Bitter Root. Eve was making Ironheart interesting. Vita was working on Static.

This is the mess we saw BEFORE a single issue let alone preview of Coates run came out. All this praise before anyone saw a thing.

[Redjack]

All this does is break my heart over never getting the drive the main BP book.

NONE of this **** would even be being argued right now. EVERYBODY would have been happy.

[tliscord]

Sounds like the same Unfans from back in the day who would pop in thread to complain about how T'Challa was such a mary sue and Wakandans were racists.

Most, if not all, had never read a BP comic and got all their information from other posters or from reading an X-comic.

Then Coates comes along and all of a sudden "T'Challa is more humanized and relatable". That was utter bullshittery.

Using terminology like “Mary Sue” sounds intellectually lazy, at best. At worse, it’s simply hatefilled and evocative, and you’re an angry boy. I personally enjoyed Priest’s run, as I did those early Jungle Action issues ( weird title tho’). I’m beginning to wonder if this thread’s love fest isn’t more a conclave of mean hurtful fanboys, and a disingenuous hate for different creator perspectives than I thought. That’s ok too I guess but attributing that hurt as some type black writers conspiracy of love is something I might find haldol useful if I met you in the ER.

If you don’t like Coates’ writing, cool, but the paranoia that black writers are up for gangbanging you is a tough victimization for me to understand.

[tliscord]

This part right here your FIRST notice to not bother with this article.



No research was done. NONE. I guess he forget Coates is writing about a character created by two WHITE GUYS.

Along with the fact Redjack's Mosaic, Hudlin's Shuri, Priest's Xero and Green Lantern Jo were created by BLACK folks. Along with Milestone. Lets not forget Damage Control and 90s Deathlok by McDuffie.

Funny a shot at Miles Morales and NOT Storm, Misty Knight, Luke Cage, Falcon, War Machine, Blade, John Stewart, Cyborg or Vixen.




John Ridley is an OSCAR WINNER. Evan Narcisse has done BP work. David Walker is at DC and Image with a movie deal for Bitter Root. Eve was making Ironheart interesting. Vita was working on Static.

This is the mess we saw BEFORE a single issue let alone preview of Coates run came out. All this praise before anyone saw a thing.

I’m sorry, what does this mean?

It really feels like you’ve taken up the cudgel of white victimization here. White guys did this, and white guys did that … I’m trying to read this differently, given your investment in T’Challa ( total respect!) but probably the issue here is Coates gave you a story you didn’t care for, for reasons, and you enjoyed Priests’ take better, and your feeling victimized by Marvel specifically for reasons.

Well and good. It’ll get better for you I’m sure. Have faith. Whenever people without power find a voice eventually they are shouted down with rage. Keep raging and it will come to pass.