YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Tofali]

Narcisse did one. Bit of a puff piece: https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2...ates-interview

I've a few minutes to kill. Thanks.

[chief12d]

If you want to say this though, than it should be acknowledged that he shouldn't be a "first step" character for these writers then.

He should be treated like Thor, Hulk, Spider-Man, ect.

It should be earned.

And they had TWO black writers who "earned the right" ready to go and they chose newb for his name. and he utterly failed at his goal, "make t'challa some kids spider-man."

I mean, if you wanna say Geoffrey is too "green" to write BP... they had David Walker there too. Someone who wrote Shaft, Cyborg, Nighthawk, Luke Cage lol. You can't "step up" the black ladder any better than that in comics.

T’Challa is treated as a first step character because Marvel editorial still has a massive problem with race and does what Priest constantly says he never wanted to do with the character, which is see him only for the color of his skin. Like I said, Coates would NEVER have been put on a book like Thor or Iron Man with his lack of credentials. Marvel refused to let him write Spider-Man.

They know very well the type of work he does and don’t want it to infect the franchises they actually think are worth protecting. With Black Panther, any ol black guy is enough as long as Twitter likes what he has to say lol. The double standard is clear to anyone with eyes and it’s motivation can only be explained by casual racism, because it only applies to BP.

[Ezyo1000]

1. Evan and I could make the franchise a showpiece.

2. There comes a point where there's almost zero chance my pitches for the character(s) would get anywhere near what the company wants for them, regardless of sales. We may be past that point. I have no interest in furthering the mythology as it's progressed over the last few years and my Big Pitch, without being an attack on any of that work (it's not. I never attack the prior writers for doing with their ideas exactly what i would do with mine if i was driving) would still be too far away from they seem wot want for T'Challa and Wakanda.

3. If the THOR book suddenly stopped being about Thor and focused instead on all the supporting characters who live in Asgard, the audience would riot, no matter how well-written or drawn.

4. I don't think it's possible now for ANY Black Panther run to exist without massive controversy. Trust me. if MARVEL called me tomorrow and said, "Green Light, brother, do anything you need to do with the title." THE INSTANT that became news, the knives would come out ,calling me every name in the book before anyone had read one word.

I don't actually care about that chatter (as if) but that's what would happen. And my run would absolutely remove everything I don't like about the last few years– in-story, without hand waves. Do we really think Marvel is signing up for that? Doubt it. Highly.

You can tell from my writing of the character what I think about him and his supporting cast. There actually is a way to have the cake and eat it vis a vis T'Challa and Shuri and all that. It's sitting right there in the existing text if they want to connect those dots. But the folks who own it have to want to and they'd need to give me at least two years to make it go.

WILDLY unlikely.

1.I believe YOU could. In fact I KNOW you would. Narcisse? If you said this after he wrote rise or when he was talking about war for Wakanda DLC?

Sure I could believe he had the potential as well. Currently? After what he did with that M'Baku one shot and what he said on that podcast right alongside Ridley? No way in hell would I want him anywhere near T'Challa. He is apart of the problem and he made his feelings clear on that podcast.

2. My Hope is that this becomes a Captain marvel situation. Marvels kept throwing "Named" writer's at the book and they kept failing HARD. Till they finally went back to basics and got a writer who cared about the CHARACTER and not their own agenda.

3. EXACTLY, and no one would bat an eye, they would let them riot and chances are Marvel would course correct because the sales would be horrendous, especially if it was as poorly written as T'Challas solo books have been for the past 6+ years. They have every right to be upset because it's THORS book, not Asgard. However for us Black Panther fans, Marvel has this added group that will attack us for wanting a black panther franchise to focus on, ya know, Black panther. And they will basically tell us to just be happy that black people are being the focus (even though what they really want is for female characters to take over the franchise since they are less threatening to the white male fanbase) and then call us toxic.

4.Yes this is True too, however, unlike before, we have already seen that black panther, when focusing on him and growing him as a character, he sells. The gators will eventually go away, no matter how much they whine, solid writing speaks louder than their puff articles that try to Downplay the significance.

Funny enough, Ridley got criticism for his first issue where the writer of the article whined about how T'Challa was being "Disrespectful" to foladi or whatever the prime ministers name was and how he should of bowed to her and all this other nonsense and how he is regressing Wakanda. Now though, that he is making a fool of T'Challa everyone is silent.

Now that Ridley got T'Challa pulled off Avengers as the chairman we got this article praising how it's a good thing because T'Challa is a control freak, it's better for the Avengers that he is gone, and basically bashing T'Challa and they bow this Ridley is doing a great job now that he is being stripped of his power and the women are solving the problems. But the numbers don't lie, no matter how much they try to hype up the bad writing (like they did with Coates) numbers. Don't. Lie.

Yes you would get some controversy, you would have the gators and agenda crowd nipping at your heels, and they would say your being disrespectful to the writers who came before you (mainly Coates and Ridley, although they too have done that exact same thing but they get a pass because the female cast is taking over) but you know what else you would get? The support of the actual fanbase who would keep then book a float.

Just like how well you did KiB one shot, the serial series, and BPQ. People loved that, your KiB one shot was one of the best and sold well for a one shot tie into an event. BPQ got nominations (and I think it won? Correct me if I'm wrong) and the book would continue and not hemmorhage sales and need constant gimmicks from marvel. The gators and agenda crowd love to complain, they don't actually support the books even IF they claim they like them anyway.

We as fans need to help by making our voices heard and going to bat for you.

[Ekie]

It is just lazy to be honest.

You hire within a race or ethnic group or whatever because then the writer can share ideas, motivations, thoughts, and feelings someone outside of that ethnic group wouldnt' know first hand.

But... T'challa isn't American Black. He's African. And African king of a nation untouched by colonialism. An african king of a super power.

What person on earth can "relate" to that really lol?

Professional comic writers can work with that because it is PURE FANTASY. There is nothing to connect to really... it is like writing Thor for Bast sake. So, you get these professionals like Priest, Aaron, Ewing, Hickman and company and they just role with it because they are used to writing comic book fiction.

These novelists and journalists and newbs try to impart some african-american issues on an AFRICAN KING. And it just doesn't work. There is nothing to connect to here.

Well said. Wish we could get Marvel editors to read that

[Vanguard]

Now that Ridley got T'Challa pulled off Avengers as the chairman we got this article praising how it's a good thing because T'Challa is a control freak, it's better for the Avengers that he is gone, and basically bashing T'Challa and they bow this Ridley is doing a great job now that he is being stripped of his power and the women are solving the problems. But the numbers don't lie, no matter how much they try to hype up the bad writing (like they did with Coates) numbers. Don't. Lie.

[/b]

But TChalla is back on the Avengers in August.

[Agent Z]

T’Challa is treated as a first step character because Marvel editorial still has a massive problem with race and does what Priest constantly says he never wanted to do with the character, which is see him only for the color of his skin. Like I said, Coates would NEVER have been put on a book like Thor or Iron Man with his lack of credentials. Marvel refused to let him write Spider-Man.

They know very well the type of work he does and don’t want it to infect the franchises they actually think are worth protecting. With Black Panther, any ol black guy is enough as long as Twitter likes what he has to say lol. The double standard is clear to anyone with eyes and it’s motivation can only be explained by casual racism, because it only applies to BP.

Did Coates ever express interest in writing Spider-Man?

Not that it excuses this, but Marvel kind of did with Thor what they're doing to T'Challa. Jason Aaron just had more comic credentials than Coates.

[Vordan]

Did Coates ever express interest in writing Spider-Man?

Not that it excuses this, but Marvel kind of did with Thor what they're doing to T'Challa. Jason Aaron just had more comic credentials than Coates.

He wanted X-Men I remember an interview around when his run started where he said he was hoping to get an X-Book. Can’t remember him explicitly saying he wanted Spidey, but as a Marvel kid growing up I’m sure he was a fan of Spider-Man.

[MindofShadow]

Not that it excuses this, but Marvel kind of did with Thor what they're doing to T'Challa. Jason Aaron just had more comic credentials than Coates.

Gonna have to explain that one my man?

[Agent Z]

Gonna have to explain that one my man?

There are aome similarities between Aaron's writing of Thor and Coates's writing of T'Challa. Both focus significantly on breaking down the main hero.

[skyvolt2000]

Gonna have to explain that one my man?

I think it goes like this-

Aaron did it in way that there was an endgame of Thor always coming back after Jane retired.

We ignore it because Aaron's run SOLD and the book in trade pretty much beat everyone including Batman.

Aaron's body of work is stronger. Look at his Vertigo Scalped run. That book was a master class to take down a lead, build up a supporting cast and still respect the lead. How that did NOT become a tv series is beyond me.

Our issue is we all look big picture.

Thor, Tony, Peter, Steve and the rest can be written badly, beaten down in stories and so on-yet there is a LINE of folks ready and willing to counter that.

Panther does not have that.

A badly done Thor book gets counted by Thor in Avengers, events, crossovers and Thor related minis.

Panther does not have that.

You sell a crappy version of a character-you get a nest of future writers ready to add on. See Cyborg. New 52 Justice League did him NO favors. How many books with him are man versus machine variants?

Or Storm before Al Ewing. If Coates BP run had stayed a top seller (in trades)-there is no X-Men Red-there is a Storm book.

[Ezyo1000]

But TChalla is back on the Avengers in August.

In Ridley's book. We don't know if he is back in JAs book. Plus the damage is already done. He's no longer chairman, he got removed for a ishtty storyline that doesn't even make sense that he is acting this way same with Wakanda.

[Vanguard]

In Ridley's book. We don't know if he is back in JAs book. Plus the damage is already done. He's no longer chairman, he got removed for a ishtty storyline that doesn't even make sense that he is acting this way same with Wakanda.

Well that’s true. I guess I just assumed he would be in JA’s book also. I really don’t want Ridley to write TChalla joining the Avengers.

[DigiCom]

Well that’s true. I guess I just assumed he would be in JA’s book also. I really don’t want Ridley to write TChalla joining the Avengers.

I never assume. Because then I have to drag a whiteboard around to make the old joke, and that's just too much of a PITA.

[Marvell2100]

T’Challa is treated as a first step character because Marvel editorial still has a massive problem with race and does what Priest constantly says he never wanted to do with the character, which is see him only for the color of his skin. Like I said, Coates would NEVER have been put on a book like Thor or Iron Man with his lack of credentials. Marvel refused to let him write Spider-Man.

They know very well the type of work he does and don’t want it to infect the franchises they actually think are worth protecting. With Black Panther, any ol black guy is enough as long as Twitter likes what he has to say lol. The double standard is clear to anyone with eyes and it’s motivation can only be explained by casual racism, because it only applies to BP.

There's a certain type of writer Marvel wants for BP. They want a writer outside of comics, with a history of some social commentary so that they can attract other types of readers. In the process they're not paying any attention to the comic fans who have stuck around through all the good and bad(mostly bad).

They won't course correct until everything has hit rock bottom and they try to bring the comic fans back. Hopefully we'll still have a good comic writer around who will want to write a BP solo that get's back to basics.

Good luck to us.

[DigiCom]

There's a certain type of writer Marvel wants for BP. They want a writer outside of comics, with a history of some social commentary so that they can attract other types of readers. In the process they're not paying any attention to the comic fans who have stuck around through all the good and bad(mostly bad).

They won't course correct until everything has hit rock bottom and they try to bring the comic fans back. Hopefully we'll still have a good comic writer around who will want to write a BP solo that get's back to basics.

Good luck to us.

That won't happen until their corporate overlords at Disney start caring about the comics as anything other than sources for IP. And THAT won't matter until the movies start losing money.

(If Disney cared one whit about the comics, do you think they'd want Stephen Strange DEAD in the MU when his movie came out?)