What Went Wrong With Claremont's Return to X Men?

[Havok83]

His style doesnt work in modern comics and storytelling. The industry was evolving in a way that he hadnt. His stuff felt old and stale and just not interesting.

[brandnewfan]

I thought this thread was going to be about CC's first return on adjectiveless X-Men and Uncanny. Which I didn't like. It just didn't seem like he had a clear direction, or the direction he wanted wasn't something that really clicked with me at least.

[cam18]

Hopefully he can save Phoenix from Jason Aaron just a disaster......I didn't hate his run in 05ish it wasn't nearly as good as his earlier stuff but he did stuff I like the focus on Rachel aside from the stupid dinosaur thing, bringing back Psylocke and few other things but he definitely has his view on how certain characters should be written which I can respect because to many writers imo change characters to a point they no longer feel anything like how they used to it might as well be a different character and the amount of time he spent building many of these character into who they became is a bit different then just a run of the mill writer coming in for a brief run shaking it up and then bouncing on to the next thing.

[Sylarmax]

His style doesnt work in modern comics and storytelling. The industry was evolving in a way that he hadnt. His stuff felt old and stale and just not interesting.

Just because you or a small group don't like it doesn't mean it won't work, more so because we currently have some pretty mediocre writers.

Claremont writes like very few team books, and it's something not many current writers can say.

[Havok83]

Just because you or a small group don't like it doesn't mean it won't work, more so because we currently have some pretty mediocre writers.

Claremont writes like very few team books, and it's something not many current writers can say.

It didnt work back in the early 2000s when he returned which is what this thread is about. Its not just me or a small group that thought that. His modern stuff around that time was generally panned and not well recieved

[Sylarmax]

It didnt work back in the early 2000s when he returned which is what this thread is about. Its not just me or a small group that thought that. His modern stuff around that time was generally panned and not well recieved

I insist it is your point of view, do not give it as an absolute truth BECAUSE IT IS NOT, Although it is true it did not have the same boom as in the 80s, but no other writer had it.


But the sales of him in the main line as revolutions and then Xtreme, THE TRUTH IS THAT HE DID NOT SELL BADLY so you are indeed wrong.


Whether or not you like your writing is only your very personal appreciation, not the absolute truth.

[Havok83]

I insist it is your point of view, do not give it as an absolute truth BECAUSE IT IS NOT, Although it is true it did not have the same boom as in the 80s, but no other writer had it.


But the sales of him in the main line as revolutions and then Xtreme, THE TRUTH IS THAT HE DID NOT SELL BADLY so you are indeed wrong.


Whether or not you like your writing is only your very personal appreciation, not the absolute truth.

Okay but thats my opinion. And how am I wrong about sales when I said nothing of sales? You are arguing over points that werent made in either of my posts. My opinion again to reiterate is that his work in the early 2000s didnt work, felt stale and wasnt interesting. Thats my opinion and I said what I said on that

[Marvell2100]

Like many have said, he relied too much on old tropes and the dialogue was outdated. It was cool when he first started but you soon started to realize that nobody talks this way in real life.

It was getting really hard to read but he kept going to that well.

[Marvell2100]

His style doesnt work in modern comics and storytelling. The industry was evolving in a way that he hadnt. His stuff felt old and stale and just not interesting.

He writing just gave me headaches. If you actually read his dialogue out loud, you'd say wtf? Who talks like this?

[WallStreeter]

Okay but thats my opinion. And how am I wrong about sales when I said nothing of sales? You are arguing over points that werent made in either of my posts. My opinion again to reiterate is that his work in the early 2000s didnt work, felt stale and wasnt interesting. Thats my opinion and I said what I said on that

Quite clearly Marvel agreed with you because he was fired from the main X-Men books and has not been allowed to return to a major title since. Because they agree with you, they know if they want the XMen to have good sales Claremont is simply not the way to go. He doesn't fit the modern age.

[WallStreeter]

He writing just gave me headaches. If you actually read his dialogue out loud, you'd say wtf? Who talks like this?

In visual mediums, editors, producers, directors, and they like generally say show, not tell. Claremont excessively relied on both dialogue and thought ballons. That is a fact, and it is not how modern writers write, also a fact. It's an opinion whether someone likes that style or not, but so many people don't like that style modern writers for visual mediums are told not to write that way. That's also factual.

Put it like this, he will never win any awards with his dialogue unless its worst dialogue. Overall, his writing worked late 70s and 80s under Jim Shooter and Louise Simonson. It wasn't a good under Ann Nocenti and it was worse under Bob Harras. Harras both in the 80s and in the early 2000s simply ended up being the end of Claremont.

And yes, he relied excessively on old tropes. His wriring in the early 2000s was STUCK in the 1980s. Morrison's run had a permanent impact on the XMen as he thought there were enough mutants for their to be mutant culture and society, a theme Hickman took to the next level for the Krakoa run. Morrison's creations the Cuckoos, Quentin Quire, etc have been been popular. Claremont's early 2000s creations, the NEO all got instantly killed off by Magneto, which shows you the impact of his early 2000s run.

Marvel is a business. If Claremont had produced quality work that could sell, he would still be writing XMen. But he did not.

[shooshoomanjoe]

What went wrong is the dialogue. There were no more 'sugah', 'mein gott', 'bozhe moi', 'flaming' or 'focused totality of psychic powers'.

[Devaishwarya]

I imagine a new/teen X-fan reading Claremont's 80's run now and feeling (and thinking) the same way I felt when I read Kirby and Lee issues, as an adult.

It was an awful feeling. I have never and will never read those early issues in entirety.