2022 - Marvel vs DC - The Difference????

[skyvolt2000]

This sums it up in a nutshell. The mythical new reader. I cracked up when I read your post because this is so true.

Funny everyone else has no trouble FINDING theses so-called mythical readers.

In fact growth in every genre happened and has continued to happen.

Using DIVERSE characters.
Using NEW created characters.
Using LGBTQA+ and females.
Using some of the same talent that Marvel and DC hires.

Meanwhile when ANY of the above is used at Marvel and DC it is MET with pushback.
Attacks on those characters and creative teams (especially at DC).

Which results in super hero genre NOT seeing growth.

while pissing on the ones they already have (never a good strategy, in my book).

There are 10-20 books starring Bruce Wayne. Yet Jace Fox in his ONE book is preventing folks from reading those 20 Bruce Wayne books.
Duke Thomas existing ruins the Bat franchise.

The fans who have NOT cared for certain characters for YEARS-yet because of a character that they HATE is in a book suddenly they got issues.
See Green Lantern and Lobo & Crush. NOBODY cared about Arista the past 13 years and her lack of appearance while Hal lead books. John leads ONE and she dies and suddenly it's an issue. Folks were SILENT about skinny New 52 Lobo but HATE is child.

Help us all if the Inhumans ever reappear.

ONly ones being pissed off are entitled fans that want to steal the Tardis and go back to the 80s.

[ZuLuLu]

This sums it up in a nutshell. The mythical new reader. I cracked up when I read your post because this is so true.

Spider Man:Miles Morales found new readers.
Ms. Marvel: Kamala Khan found new readers.
Jane Thor found new readers.
Black Panther, under Coates love it or hate it found new readers.
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur found new readers.
Gwen Poole, Spider Gwen, Squirrel Girl found new readers.

They are younger and more diverse but their buying habits differ from traditional comic readers, they are more likely to buy trades at book store or digitally, than they are to buy monthly floppies at comic stores. They are also pretty finicky as they tend to leave a series quickly if the creative team changes.

[The BaRoN]

Spider Man:Miles Morales found new readers.
Ms. Marvel: Kamala Khan found new readers.
Jane Thor found new readers.
Black Panther, under Coates love it or hate it found new readers.
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur found new readers.
Gwen Poole, Spider Gwen, Squirrel Girl found new readers.

They are younger and more diverse but their buying habits differ from traditional comic readers, they are more likely to buy trades at book store or digitally, than they are to buy monthly floppies at comic stores. They are also pretty finicky as they tend to leave a series quickly if the creative team changes.

And how many of those books are still published?

They find new readers for a few issues and then bolt once the media hype dies down.

Then it’s cancelled. Poor writers, poor execution, and poor vision means these books die.

[The BaRoN]

Thor - Thunderstrike

Steve Rogers Cap - John Walker Cap

Tony Stark Iron Man - James Rhodes Iron Man

All of these changes were in the late 80's - early 90s, way before 2014.

Peter Parker got replaced by Ben Reilly in the mid 90s.

So, characters being changed is nothing new.

And none of them stick, it’s a terrible gimmick.

Same then and same recently.

Difference is, people actually bought these comics back in the 80s and 90s regardless and in huge numbers while moon girl would somehow be deemed a success with 9000 sales a month.

Alonso was sacked for this mess. It’s not difficult to see why.

No one is saying don’t have these characters but the way they do it and then go on the defensive and insult everyone else is shockingly bad management.

Diversity shouldn’t be an issue, just hire better writers and artists to do these characters justice or use great ones that already exist.

I’m just glad Blade, Carol and Reyes Ghost rider have been used better recently.

[Orbus]

And how many of those books are still published?

They find new readers for a few issues and then bolt once the media hype dies down.

Then it’s cancelled. Poor writers, poor execution, and poor vision means these books die.

Again untrue. As someone said earlier in the thread Miles Morales Spider-Man is still going and is currently one of Marvel's highest sellers.

Jane Foster's Thor series was a huge seller throughout her entire time as the series protagonist. Of course since a lot of the characters's appeal was her being a god/superhero while dying of cancer the series would have to come to an end eventually. Jane giving up the title and and Odinson becoming worthy was baked into the concept.

Kamala Khan was a huge seller throughout most of her run. As mentioned a lot of her popularity was tied to her creative team still it's almost certain they will give her another ongoing since the TV show was well received and she's sharing the spotlight in The Marvels. Bare in mind for a while Steve Rogers hasn't an ongoing but like Kamala was kept going with various mini series until they launched two new ongoings off the back the Falcon and The Winter Soldier show. Even stuff like Totally Awesome Hulk and Wolverine were decent enough sellers. They were just cancelled to make way for the return of Bruce and Logan which was always going to happen.

I also would argue getting cancelled isn't a sign of bad characters or writing. How many times has Doctor Strange been cancelled? How about Namor? Gambit? There are certain characters that are dusted off every few years and given a chance to catch on but no argues they are bad characters.

[ZuLuLu]

Again untrue. As someone said earlier in the thread Miles Morales Spider-Man is still going and is currently one of Marvel's highest sellers.

Jane Foster's Thor series was a huge seller throughout her entire time as the series protagonist. Of course since a lot of the characters's appeal was her being a god/superhero while dying of cancer the series would have to come to an end eventually. Jane giving up the title and and Odinson becoming worthy was baked into the concept.

Kamala Khan was a huge seller throughout most of her run. As mentioned a lot of her popularity was tied to her creative team still it's almost certain they will give her another ongoing since the TV show was well received and she's sharing the spotlight in The Marvels. Bare in mind for a while Steve Rogers hasn't an ongoing but like Kamala was kept going with various mini series until they launched two new ongoings off the back the Falcon and The Winter Soldier show. Even stuff like Totally Awesome Hulk and Wolverine were decent enough sellers. They were just cancelled to make way for the return of Bruce and Logan which was always going to happen.

I also would argue getting cancelled isn't a sign of bad characters or writing. How many times has Doctor Strange been cancelled? How about Namor? Gambit? There are certain characters that are dusted off every few years and given a chance to catch on but no argues they are bad characters.

All this!

Additionally, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur series ran for 47 issues.

The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl ran for 58 issues

How many non 'diverse' books are able to make that into today's market? Few.

Books like Ms. Marvel, Moon Girl, and Squirrel Girl were not huge sellers as monthly floppies but did well in other avenues like trades, scholastic and digital.

[Anthony W]

And how many of those books are still published?

They find new readers for a few issues and then bolt once the media hype dies down.

Then it’s cancelled. Poor writers, poor execution, and poor vision means these books die.

At least in the nineties we could spot a gimmick for what it was.

[gambit2051]

People that claim "there is no financial data"....you are aware Marvel and DC are both Publicly Owned Companies with reports of their Yearly Revenue...correct?

You are able to figure out HOW a Company is doing based on their Yearly and even Quarterly Reports...

The Number of HBOMax Customers as of the Report and since Inception? That number was in the 2021 AT&T Report to Stockholders...

I restate, BOTH Marvel and DC are owned by PUBLIC Companies...they are in no way Private Companies. Disney owns Marvel, and that is shown in Their Reports. The newly created Company Warner Bros. Discovery (WBD) is also a Public Company (like AT&T is) and I can guarantee that due to the more Focused Nature of this New Company vs AT&T, that those Reports will be far more Detailed than they used to be about how the IPs are being used.

Or does ACTUAL Revenue not matter to anyone here????

[gambit2051]

I will even edit that and compare the boards on this site and the topics. On the Marvel boards you have people starting threads on so many different characters and teams


You don't see that on the DC boards. You don't.

There wasn't even a review thread for Dark Crisis #3 (for good reason it was terrible. Williamson decided that the "Trauma" of the Attack on Titans Tower did "More Damage than the Bullet" to the Brain that Beast Boy SURVIVED.......it honestly Feels Insulting for some reason other than being TERRIBLE Writing).

I still haven't heard anything about Working Conditions. And to everyone stating there is not a difference, you are wrong. I am sorry, but you are. SOME (a FEW) of the Writers DO regularly write for BOTH companies now (Chip Zdarsky, Tom Taylor, Gail Simone), but Bendis was basically DRIVEN out of Marvel by the Fans and Editorial Staff. DC making a big deal of landing him was ALWAYS a PR stunt (member his Superman run? bc the only thing we all remember is that he RUINED Jon Kent by Aging him up, simply bc Bendis does NOT write Children well and is obsessed with Teen Angst (Ultimate Spider-Man...I did not say he did has not written it well, just that he is obsessed with it)). It was Especially annoying due to how WELL the Superman Family was doing Post-Rebirth. Do say Bendis KILLED the Superman Line is the Understatement of the Decade at DC tbh. I bet the Trades for Supermans Rebirth run sell pretty well, while the trades for Bendis' (which included ideas that Williamson decided to use btw...) run....i seriously doubt it.
But THAT is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Marvel has kept several Independent Minded Writers coming back for decades (Al Ewing, Kieron Gillen, and Hickman are the main 3 that come to mind rn. But they are just the old heads. The Less Experienced Talent at Marvel is seriously impressive as well...and there is NO WAY it is because of how great an environment it is.

Simply Google the name Ike Perlmutter and it is honestly AMAZING the the Marvel line has remained as diverse as it has...if not for Kevin Feige & Disney, the MCU would not be nearly as Diverse a place as it has become since the end of Phase 2. Perlmutter's influence over the company had been pervasive for decades. I am not sure how much that is still the case, but anyone he placed into a position is not a friend of Diversity...

Also....When the Number of Published Titles is as weighted towards 1 side, that also means more of the Writers will be there simply for the work.

I have read so many posts that have simply posted the same thing I have read dozens of times on DC forums about why they hate Marvel and why DC is still a viable Comic Book company (DC is no longer known as DC Comics btw....they are JUST DC.......nothing to look into with that...just that they Company that used to focus on JUST DC Comics is now focused on the DC Brand....no difference there....unless you understand that the MEDIUM will no longer matter as long as the media is Consumed....)

[gambit2051]

They are also pretty finicky as they tend to leave a series quickly if the creative team changes.

Sorry, hard to call following a Creative Team and NOT the Character as a "finicky" thing....that just sounds sensible to me.

I stopped reading Superman once Bendis took over...his 1st act was to assassinate the character of Jon Kent, so I do not regret that in the slightest. I also purchased those Digitally (people acting like THIS is KILLING Comics does not Understand Company REVENUE and the DRAMATIC Increase in the sale of Digital Trades the past decade....) where the sales data usually ends up being lumped in and buried with Revenue and specific Items of Note that are reported to the Shareholders. Comic Creators have honestly NEVER been in a better place. You really think Al Ewing's "We Only Find Them When They're Dead" would have made it 12 issues ANYWHERE 30 years ago? Dark Horse LITERALLY only existed to write about IPs that Marvel and DC were ignoring (like Alien, Predator, Terminator, and STAR WARS) for DECADES. It was not until Image that Creator Control became a viable thing and Following a Creator was a thing that was actually possible to a real degree.

You want to talk about a Captive Work Force??? Comic Creators until RECENTLY....

[gambit2051]

All this!

Additionally, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur series ran for 47 issues.

The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl ran for 58 issues

How many non 'diverse' books are able to make that into today's market? Few.

Books like Ms. Marvel, Moon Girl, and Squirrel Girl were not huge sellers as monthly floppies but did well in other avenues like trades, scholastic and digital.

Using how many Issues a Series Runs does not work anymore due to how often a Series is Rebooted with a majority of the Same Creative Team, simply to get that Boost of a New #1 (until a year later they "revert" for the 100th issue), or bc the Digital Trade of 6 issues is a SERIOUS Market now-a-days (which is pretty much why series like Spider-Man & Deadpool last for over 50 issues....I love those characters and even I have NO IDEA HOW that series lasted 50 issues...but we will get more I bet simply bc there is a writer out there who is a teenager that will write that sequel in 15 years bc of the impact it had on them as a kid lololol).

THAT can be a Huge barrier for some people, while it can help some people feel like they now belong (now understanding the annoyance lol).

[gambit2051]

At least in the nineties we could spot a gimmick for what it was.

1 News Story for you....Death...of...Superman...

So....no WE could not. It was much more difficult. I mean, Most NEW Comic Readers after CoIE had no idea Who Barry Allen was until he was a Guest Star as the Former Flash in a story they were reading...and no one was really calling for him to return (just for them to stop treating Wally so poorly).
So I def rebuke the idea that "People Knew Better" in the 90s lololol sorry.

[ZuLuLu]

People that claim "there is no financial data"....you are aware Marvel and DC are both Publicly Owned Companies with reports of their Yearly Revenue...correct?

You are able to figure out HOW a Company is doing based on their Yearly and even Quarterly Reports...

The Number of HBOMax Customers as of the Report and since Inception? That number was in the 2021 AT&T Report to Stockholders...

I restate, BOTH Marvel and DC are owned by PUBLIC Companies...they are in no way Private Companies. Disney owns Marvel, and that is shown in Their Reports. The newly created Company Warner Bros. Discovery (WBD) is also a Public Company (like AT&T is) and I can guarantee that due to the more Focused Nature of this New Company vs AT&T, that those Reports will be far more Detailed than they used to be about how the IPs are being used.

Or does ACTUAL Revenue not matter to anyone here????

Eventhough they are public companies the Annual Reports don't go into details about the comic section of these companies, since they are a tiny fraction of those companies.

In the case of Marvel all you will see in Disney Annual Report is how Disney Media & Entertainment Distribution is doing it doesn't breakdown into Marvel, Pixar, Lucas Films, etc..

[Anthony W]

1 News Story for you....Death...of...Superman...

Everyone knew he was coming back except the normies...whom the speculators attempted to bilk

So....no WE could not.

Yeah we could. Our problem was thinking we could con normal people forever.

It was much more difficult. I mean, Most NEW Comic Readers after CoIE had no idea Who Barry Allen was until he was a Guest Star as the Former Flash in a story they were reading...and no one was really calling for him to return (just for them to stop treating Wally so poorly).
So I def rebuke the idea that "People Knew Better" in the 90s lololol sorry.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that knowing better makes you better.

[Marvell2100]

And none of them stick, it’s a terrible gimmick.

Same then and same recently.

Difference is, people actually bought these comics back in the 80s and 90s regardless and in huge numbers while moon girl would somehow be deemed a success with 9000 sales a month.

Alonso was sacked for this mess. It’s not difficult to see why.

No one is saying don’t have these characters but the way they do it and then go on the defensive and insult everyone else is shockingly bad management.

Diversity shouldn’t be an issue, just hire better writers and artists to do these characters justice or use great ones that already exist.

I’m just glad Blade, Carol and Reyes Ghost rider have been used better recently.

Rhodey is War Machine, Sam is a Captain America. Jane Foster is Valkyrie and Walker is US Agent. Ben Reilly is back as well and there are multiple versions of Spider-Man.

Looks like it's sticking quite well. And the originals are still around.