T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2023

[Marvell2100]

Why Marvel Comics jumped the gun with Tosin I will never know.

All they had to do is wait a few more months to see exactly what the movie was doing to go ahead and add a "younger" male protagonist.

Tosin is gonna join Vibraxas in limbo.

Lol, yeah. Coogler interestingly both screwed and saved T’Challa at the same time. Letitia more or less confirmed in the interview with John Boyega that T’Junior is meant to be a soft reboot of the character so with that said there’s nothing to synergize here. And I’m looking forward to seeing Tosin being carted off to limbo land.

It's time for a reboot of the comic T'Challa, sort of like what Priest and Hudlin did.

This whole Wakanda-democracy/T'Challa-lying liar has worn out it's welcome.

[Emperorjones]

Reading over some of you all's thoughts on Tosin. The way I see it is that Marvel Comics went all in on the idea of the mantle and that Wakanda is more important than T'Challa. It wasn't enough to just introduce a new male character, one that had powers and potentially could be a breakout, but they also had to put him in opposition, loud opposition, to T'Challa. I think it was a bad move to bring Tosin into the book to crap on T'Challa, just like about every other new character has for years now. However, dumping on (straight) Black males was still very much in vogue in entertainment. Coates largely got away with it, but I think readers' patience is shorter with Ridley, especially when Wakanda Forever was looming, as was the specter that T'Challa would be buried in the movies and comics.

It's presumptuous that Tosin, who has lived in a closed off segment of Wakandan society would call himself "The Wakandan." While preaching inclusion on one hand, he's very exclusionary. It's like he can't see the contradictions, perhaps because Ridley can't. It was like Tosin is the kind of stereotypical idea of a "woke" young activist but is put in the context of Wakanda. The assumption is that these kinds of characters are going to sell, but I haven't really seen that happening at DC and Marvel, and some like the new New Warriors were quashed before they even saw daylight. Ridley didn't do much to make him endearing, outside of a neat look and potential power set. He so far hasn't even spent time developing a romantic relationship between Tosin and Shuri which perhaps could've made him more likable, or likable period.

It sucks that Vibraxas was tossed to the side. I find him more potentially interesting than Tosin or Gentle (still not digging that code name). I would much rather have Vibraxas and Queen Divine Justice as important supporting characters in a BP title or in a spin off title of their own.

I think the disappointing box office for Wakanda Forever will give Marvel Comics some pause on erasing T'Challa. I don't think they will go back on dumping on him completely-it's just too ingrained-but the door is now open for a Brandon Thomas, Bryan Edward Hill, etc. to perhaps give a more nuanced or tempered T'Challa. He will still get checked (largely by Black female characters) and be very reliant on Shuri, but maybe, just maybe, he won't be as hapless, self-loathing, and defeatist.

When I think about how Ridley writes Jace Fox versus T'Challa, it's almost night and day. He does spank Fox some, and he gets checked (often by females of color), but he's nowhere near as defeated as Ridley's T'Challa. No one is telling him he's not needed or that he makes everything worse. None of the Fox sisters are telling another hero that they are the future while their brother is the past, and things along that line.

[Frontier]

MCU going all in with the Incursion thing

and no T'challa

GD, that is going to HURT. It is probably T'challa's biggest "Avengers storyline" in the comics and he's gonna be complete MIA from it.

And before someone goes "Junior! or Variant!"... that isn't "main" T'challa trying to figure out how to stop the damn thing (and failing). So it isn't the same thing at all.

I wonder if we'll even see a main Earth Illuminati turn up before we get to Kang Dynasty/Secret Wars.

[Ezyo1000]

My ideal situation is that T’Challa says “fuck this”, and flies up in space to rule the empire full time. Meanwhile an upgraded villain from T’Challas past comes in and wrecks Wakanda’s **** while mocking new characters like Tosin saying “Where’s your REAL protector?” And that’s when the Wakandans finally realize that they need T’Challa. Bonus points if Shuri and Okoye are the first ones to call idiots like Tosin, Ayo, or Folosade out on their stupidity.

Nah ALL of them need to get checked, Shuri, Ayo, omolola folasade, ALL OF THEM. The ONLY one who doesn't get checked would be Okoye and that's more so because someone needs to report to T'Challa what's going on, bit even she is telling him that they shouldn't have kicked him out and they were wrong.

[Ezyo1000]

I wish he would. He's got enough wealth and connections to start his own thing.

I'd like to see him start a new Secret Avengers team:

Black Widow - Yelena Belova or Natasha would be fine.
Ronin - New character
Ares
Invisible Woman
Blade

I think that there are enough B and C list characters on the team to keep people interested.

Ironically, I felt T'Challa should form a new Ultimates team.

Strange
Adam
Monica
Susan storm
Janet

Gives a nice rounded skill and powerset

[skyvolt2000]

[QUOTE=Emperorjones;6317431]
I think the disappointing box office for Wakanda Forever will give Marvel Comics some pause on erasing T'Challa. /QUOTE]

The movie made $820 million. A billion was never a guarantee even with T'Challa in it.

If Marvel got an issue with that then they need to have a conversation with every fake woke black feminist and their simps who tried to lump the recast crew and those not interest in the films with the alt-trolls. ALONG with the fact they put it out a MONTH before Avatar 2 and Puss and Boots.

You wanted a billion? February 2022 through July 2022 was OPEN.

And once again the merchandising department never got the notice to erase T'Challa. Excluding movie stuff-everything else Black Panther related and some with WF logo on it has T'Challa.
In fact there is more stuff with him on it then Shuri coming out this year.

The assumption is that these kinds of characters are going to sell, but I haven't really seen that happening at DC and Marvel, and some like the new New Warriors were quashed before they even saw daylight.

That happened when fake woke folks became who they hated-the alt trolls. For as much as they SCREAMED wait till it comes out and then judge-they just threw a fit to throw a fit. They just acted like the gators and threw fits before the first issue. Shame on Marvel for pandering. If they had did that in 2011, 2015 & 2016-Miles Morales, Kamala Khan and Riri Williams wouldn't exist.
All Miles did was get an Oscar and broke the Marvel & DC record for a black male having a solo book in consecutive years.
Ms Marvel is the most successful Asian female in terms of solo issues passing Cassandra Cain.

Coates largely got away with it,

Not really. Not when you have a run with 156 variants and NOT be named Peter Parker. Even Batman had restraint.

[skyvolt2000]

https://bleedingcool.com/collectible...sets-hit-lego/

Team Spidey's Mobile Headquarters

"The set includes 5 minifigures – Spidey, Ghost-Spider, Miles Morales, Black Panther and Rhino – plus a buildable headquarters for Spidey and the team. The mobile HQ has an opening cockpit and rear door, where a roadster and an ATV can enter and exit. Rhino comes with an egg-firing blaster. His target is a grocery store, which contains plentyof ammunition for a food fight. Accessories include web elements and street furniture, while a 2-brick chassis and a picture-story guide give kids the confidence to assemble the set. For added digital fun, the LEGO Builder app features zoom and rotate tools that let kids visualize their model as they build."

[chief12d]

My ideal situation is that T’Challa says “fuck this”, and flies up in space to rule the empire full time. Meanwhile an upgraded villain from T’Challas past comes in and wrecks Wakanda’s **** while mocking new characters like Tosin saying “Where’s your REAL protector?” And that’s when the Wakandans finally realize that they need T’Challa. Bonus points if Shuri and Okoye are the first ones to call idiots like Tosin, Ayo, or Folosade out on their stupidity.

Marvel’s not gonna commit to T’Challa finally being free of Wakanda because Wakanda as a concept loses all relevance if he’s not there. Most of the characters don’t matter outside the context of a Black Panther ongoing and if T’Challa decided to truly say deuces there’s be no reason for characters like Tosin or the Prime Minister to even exist. They aren’t interesting or marketable enough to be featured as their own property, the last few years of abysmally selling Black Panther spin-offs is proof of that.

This is a huge part of why the last few years of Black Panther have been dominated by civil war stories. It gives bad writers like Coates and Ridley a chance to inundate the ongoing with poorly constructed OCs and new factions in a cheap effort to worldbuild and shift focus away from T’Challa, who they don’t like and see as someone the franchise needs to move on from because of his “toxic” traits.

Hell, after everything that’s happened this last arc T’Challa shouldn’t even allowed back in Wakanda. But where else are trash pet characters like Tosin, the Prime Minister, and the Midnight Angels gonna appear? Falcon’s book is already doing cancellation numbers. The X-books take every chance to **** on Wakanda and T’Challa in general. T’Challa is the only reason Wakanda has any relevance at Marvel, you remove him and it gets a lot less appearances and the OCs Marvel wants to take T’Challa’s place have no where to show up and be remotely prominent.

[BlackClaw]

Marvel’s not gonna commit to T’Challa finally being free of Wakanda because Wakanda as a concept loses all relevance if he’s not there. Most of the characters don’t matter outside the context of a Black Panther ongoing and if T’Challa decided to truly say deuces there’s be no reason for characters like Tosin or the Prime Minister to even exist. They aren’t interesting or marketable enough to be featured as their own property, the last few years of abysmally selling Black Panther spin-offs is proof of that.

This is a huge part of why the last few years of Black Panther have been dominated by civil war stories. It gives bad writers like Coates and Ridley a chance to inundate the ongoing with poorly constructed OCs and new factions in a cheap effort to worldbuild and shift focus away from T’Challa, who they don’t like and see as someone the franchise needs to move on from because of his “toxic” traits.

Hell, after everything that’s happened this last arc T’Challa shouldn’t even allowed back in Wakanda. But where else are trash pet characters like Tosin, the Prime Minister, and the Midnight Angels gonna appear? Falcon’s book is already doing cancellation numbers. The X-books take every chance to **** on Wakanda and T’Challa in general. T’Challa is the only reason Wakanda has any relevance at Marvel, you remove him and it gets a lot less appearances and the OCs Marvel wants to take T’Challa’s place have no where to show up and be remotely prominent.

Nah if Wakanda is a protagonist like Marvel and Johnny come latelys are saying then I say do a solo of T’Challa having adventures in space as the emperor and give Wakanda their own solo. See which one has the better sales and maybe then it’ll finally click that T’Challa IS Wakanda.

[Besouro]

It's a new year for T'Challa, let's see all the nonsense of Coates and Ridley burned away like so:

Attachment 127785





And given Rise to a BP run we all have been waiting for since Liss made lemonade out of the lemon that was the premise given.

I will take Liss over Narcisse.

[Besouro]

Champion of Eternity

Avatar of Bast

Tamer of Tiger God, the first, oldest and most primal god embodiment of the wilderness and fear

King of Wakanda

Tamer of Mjolnir

King of the Dead and Necropolis

TCHALLA!!!!

Black-Panther-Eternity-2.jpg

avengers-36-black-panther-mjolnir-1240389.jpg

[Besouro]

Reading over some of you all's thoughts on Tosin. The way I see it is that Marvel Comics went all in on the idea of the mantle and that Wakanda is more important than T'Challa. It wasn't enough to just introduce a new male character, one that had powers and potentially could be a breakout, but they also had to put him in opposition, loud opposition, to T'Challa. I think it was a bad move to bring Tosin into the book to crap on T'Challa, just like about every other new character has for years now. However, dumping on (straight) Black males was still very much in vogue in entertainment. Coates largely got away with it, but I think readers' patience is shorter with Ridley, especially when Wakanda Forever was looming, as was the specter that T'Challa would be buried in the movies and comics.

It's presumptuous that Tosin, who has lived in a closed off segment of Wakandan society would call himself "The Wakandan." While preaching inclusion on one hand, he's very exclusionary. It's like he can't see the contradictions, perhaps because Ridley can't. It was like Tosin is the kind of stereotypical idea of a "woke" young activist but is put in the context of Wakanda. The assumption is that these kinds of characters are going to sell, but I haven't really seen that happening at DC and Marvel, and some like the new New Warriors were quashed before they even saw daylight. Ridley didn't do much to make him endearing, outside of a neat look and potential power set. He so far hasn't even spent time developing a romantic relationship between Tosin and Shuri which perhaps could've made him more likable, or likable period.

It sucks that Vibraxas was tossed to the side. I find him more potentially interesting than Tosin or Gentle (still not digging that code name). I would much rather have Vibraxas and Queen Divine Justice as important supporting characters in a BP title or in a spin off title of their own.

I think the disappointing box office for Wakanda Forever will give Marvel Comics some pause on erasing T'Challa. I don't think they will go back on dumping on him completely-it's just too ingrained-but the door is now open for a Brandon Thomas, Bryan Edward Hill, etc. to perhaps give a more nuanced or tempered T'Challa. He will still get checked (largely by Black female characters) and be very reliant on Shuri, but maybe, just maybe, he won't be as hapless, self-loathing, and defeatist.

When I think about how Ridley writes Jace Fox versus T'Challa, it's almost night and day. He does spank Fox some, and he gets checked (often by females of color), but he's nowhere near as defeated as Ridley's T'Challa. No one is telling him he's not needed or that he makes everything worse. None of the Fox sisters are telling another hero that they are the future while their brother is the past, and things along that line.

Correction:

Tosin is FAKE woke!!!

Many seem to forget that technically "wokeness" started with the Abolitionist movement centuries ago. "Woke" is just a new millennial word meaning the same thing.

[chief12d]

In an ideal world the next BP ongoing would go all in on the Agents of Wakanda team, done properly this time. T’Challa realizes that with this dumbass democracy running things it’s only a matter of time before the reactionary, war-mongering elements in his country rise up at a time when the world is increasingly unstable. Bring in some of the geopolitical plot lines from the non-mutant side of Marvel (to keep his ex-wife the hell out of his book mostly lol).

Doom’s conquered Symkaria, Atlantis is going on a scorched earth campaign against the surface, maybe Volcan Dumoyo from the Priest run is causing trouble again with assistance from an aggressive Russia, etc. T’Challa, a man without a nation but a list of contacts from his days as king, wants to assemble a replacement for SHIELD. The old guard of Nick Fury and the like were too establishment: too many soldiers, too many bases, and too beholden to Western interests. And worst of all, they were prone to infiltration by Nazis and other folks that made the world a more inequitable and violent place.

He revamps the Agents of Wakanda with a new mission of global security, new name and everything. Make him a hero of the Global South, running an intelligence group that’s more mobile and more willing to protect nations typically left behind by these global agencies. The type of countries his xenophobic ancestors left behind but that he knows deserve better. A group that’s better equipped for mystical/cosmic phenomena and seeking restorative justice for places that have been actual victims of intelligence warfare and superpowered espionage. He’s made a new pact with Bast and the other Wakandan gods for support. Made a cosmic alliance or two as well. If Stark ran SHIELD like a Fortune 500 company, T’Challa should run his revamped Agents of Wakanda like a holy order, with the tech and magic to boot. A smaller, but more powerful version of the League of Shadows but fighting on the side of good. Something that returns T’Challa to his days of pure adventure under Kirby, with his missions taking him from the lost temples of Deviant Lemuria to the besieged capital of Princess Zanda’s Narobia.

Give him a villain he could never fully go against as King of Wakanda, like Roxxon or AIM, under new leadership and with a new villain made just for T’Challa. T’Challa’s taking charge as an arbiter of global peace and security, without the official backing of any nation and only the passive approval of the Avengers. It’d be a challenge to take on a global criminal or corporate organization. He’s leading a new Secret Avengers of sorts. I agree with Marvel2100, that’s the best direction for T’Challa. It’s also the most natural and respectful way to separate T’Challa from the last few years of terrible stories by Coates/Ridley. T’Challa won’t just give up at life because he can’t be king. His skills and dreams have always been bigger than one measly nation.

[chief12d]

Nah if Wakanda is a protagonist like Marvel and Johnny come latelys are saying then I say do a solo of T’Challa having adventures in space as the emperor and give Wakanda their own solo. See which one has the better sales and maybe then it’ll finally click that T’Challa IS Wakanda.

I prefer T’Challa on Earth tbh, I don’t care about the empire but I do agree there needs to be a firm division now between Wakanda and T’Challa. Marvel won’t let it happen but I think it’s telling T’Challa’s best writing the last few years has occurred almost exclusively when he’s away from that place and not with other Wakandans that Marvel’s pushing at his expense (Shuri, the Dora, etc.)

Editorial should grow the balls to let Wakanda have its own ongoing if T’Challa is such a detriment to it and its redshirts.

[skyvolt2000]

Marvel’s not gonna commit to T’Challa finally being free of Wakanda because Wakanda as a concept loses all relevance if he’s not there. Most of the characters don’t matter outside the context of a Black Panther ongoing and if T’Challa decided to truly say deuces there’s be no reason for characters like Tosin or the Prime Minister to even exist. They aren’t interesting or marketable enough to be featured as their own property, the last few years of abysmally selling Black Panther spin-offs is proof of that.

Hell, after everything that’s happened this last arc T’Challa shouldn’t even allowed back in Wakanda. But where else are trash pet characters like Tosin, the Prime Minister, and the Midnight Angels gonna appear? Falcon’s book is already doing cancellation numbers. The X-books take every chance to **** on Wakanda and T’Challa in general. T’Challa is the only reason Wakanda has any relevance at Marvel, you remove him and it gets a lot less appearances and the OCs Marvel wants to take T’Challa’s place have no where to show up and be remotely prominent.

That book is lasting to at least issue 11 and probably issue 12-which if you count Falcon's mini, Falcon last solo, 2 previous CA Falcon run, CA Fear Him and the Falcon special he had a long time ago-that CAST #12 would be his 61th solo issue.
Captain America: New World Order is slated for May 2024. If that book can make it to this time next year that is Sam's 70th solo issue. Marvel is going to find a way to make that happen.
Aside from Luke, T'Challa, Miles, Spawn and MAYBE Static-nobody else can boast having 60.

As for other places where guys like Tosin can appear. The X-books. What better shade then them getting along with him and still tossing shade on T'Challa.

Don't think they won't dump Champions with Tosin on Ridley (who probably would never pitch a series) to do-Marvel has done that before ask Leah Williams. That's is how she got Gwenpool. Disney executives wanted her gone and Marvel dumped that mini on Leah to PROVE there was an audience.