T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2024

[lordozone]

I just read the first chapter: it's an excellent start. I could even say it's a start almost on par with Ultimate Spider-Man (lacking just a tiny bit of originality and risk-taking, but , why change a winning formula?) But between Coates, Riley, and Ewing, I've been too often disappointed by a first issue that seemed promising, to blindly trust. Wait and see, knowing Hill's work, I think this could be the best Black Panther comic since Priest.

[taozen]

Black Panther by German Peralta

Black Panther by German Peralta.jpg

[Mantis-Ray]

Black Panther by German Peralta

Black Panther by German Peralta.jpg

That is a cool piece.

Ya know I always thought they should make more of him being a spear user along with the claws. Give him a cool weapon befitting a king.

I think one of his tricks in Avengers Earth's Mightest Heroes was clasping his hands together and creating a vibranium spear from his energy claws which was really cool.

[KingNomarch]

That is a cool piece.

Ya know I always thought they should make more of him being a spear user along with the claws. Give him a cool weapon befitting a king.

I think one of his tricks in Avengers Earth's Mightest Heroes was clasping his hands together and creating a vibranium spear from his energy claws which was really cool.

Yup although it came out looking like a double ended palm axe sometimes

T’Challa using the energy daggers to create a spear or using the spear of bashenga would be a good fit for his arsenal. I wouldn’t mind seeing a version of the iklwa used by T’Challa in the movie get incorporated either

[Emperorjones]

Coates took power away from the only Black male Marvel character with power. And I'm not talking about just physical power.

As I'm rereading some of Coates's work (I bailed after the first handful of issues in his very first arc, and then tried the Intergalactic Empire story and didn't like that either), I'm going to say the jury is out for me. Back then, I very much felt the same way you do, but while rereading it, I can't say yet (I've read the first seven issues) that he's taken power away from T'Challa. He's just shown him using it badly, and being more cynical, manipulative, and brutal than arguably he should be. But Coates has also shown him yearning to be more heroic. I think Coates's ideas about (straight) Black male masculinity and monarchy colored how he wrote T'Challa. I do think that how he writes his dialogue though feels like how T'Challa might talk.

Other things I've noticed is that the Midnight Angels didn't take over the book as much as I thought they would/had (when reading the first time), and it was more like Coates was introducing them to spin them off. He also didn't make the Midnight Angels one thousand percent right (though they were more heroic than T'Challa) in that they could be manipulated too by The People. He even gives a comeuppance to the sanctimonious Changamire. While the pacing is better than Ridley and Ewing, it still isn't great. I think the book swerves unevenly between the action with T'Challa vs. The People to these long scenes with Shuri in the afterlife. Though while those scenes allow Coates to delve more into mythology, spirituality, and philosophy, they also are a drag.

It seems to me that Ridley did a bad imitation of Coates, without his intellectual heft or nuance. He just made the intersectionality and gender war more explicit while also saying "monarchy/T'Challa bad" through Tosin and the Prime Minister without exploring more of the why they feel that way (or providing differing opinions), which is what I'm getting more with Coates the second time around.

I still prefer Priest, Hudlin, Liss, Maberry, (until halfway through Doomwar), Dickey, Wells, Thorne, and Hill's one-shot (and I'm imagining soon-to-be Hill's Ultimate run) over Coates, but I can't put Coates at the bottom. Right now, he's over Ridley, Okorafor, and Dr. Ewing, and he might even be over Kirby. Not sure if I would put him over the writers who did the origins. I didn't read enough of how McGregor, Hickman, or Al Ewing wrote T'Challa to fairly judge them. I also haven't read any Roy Thomas or Peter Gillis. I'm not counting Jason Aaron because his Wakanda story wasn't really about Black Panther to me.

[Emperorjones]

What is the issue with Okoye? Honestly out of all the characters available for T'Challa to be with, Okoye atleast seems there' can be chemistry, on top of that, the batches of OC LI and support characters over the last 8 year's have been unimpressive. I agree that Ridley also started out alright but he also had some questionable interviews and didn't already have the benefit Hill does which is a good track record with some Black heroes AND T'Challa himself.



I never read the KIB event at all. I just came one for the one shot. But I liked it alot. It was a breath of fresh air during Coates era.




IMO, having read it start to finish, while the pacing and story flowed better, it still wasn't good. It has action but it's static and stale, completely unimpressive and he struggles against everything, fodder and all. And he never defeated a single villain on his own. He ALWAYS needed help, and in one case he doesn't even take down then villain.

His story lacked cohesion, had glacial pacing, and then would go out of his way to have T'Challa so stupid things just so he could criticize him.

I will say his run isn't as blatantly obvious about his disdain for T'Challa like Ridley, but he isn't much better either. And comparatively, Ewing is much better, but the bar was so low that isn't saying much

I don't have an issue with Okoye really. It's more I think they could take advantage of it being an alternate reality and shake things up more. This first issue did feel very easy for people who know T'Challa mostly because of the MCU to get into, which isn't bad. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes sense from a growing the audience, financial perspective. But the comic nerd in me wouldn't mind playing around more, to really drive home how different this reality is. The twist with his advisor was a nice one though. And though I imagine that the T'Challa-Okoye marriage is a political one, and that he eventually might get with Storm, I wouldn't mind seeing T'Challa in a loving relationship for once right off. And if she's taken out later for Storm, I could accept that, but still, it would be nice to see this aspect of his character.

As for Coates, I've just started rereading (or really reading him for the first time), and I'm not discounting your thoughts about him. I was just more impressed with his first arc (I've just read the first seven issues) than I was back in the day. So that made me wonder if I had gotten him wrong. But I'm also keeping in mind that I'm reading him after Ridley and Dr. Ewing. Of the three, Coates's action scenes overall have been better (though Ewing depicts T'Challa as the more competent fighter), his villains are better realized, and his pacing (so far) is better, but that doesn't mean there aren't pacing problems. I think Dr. Ewing has written T'Challa as the most heroic, whereas Coates's take is more muddled, and Ridley does have disdain for the character.

[Marvell2100]

That is a cool piece.

Ya know I always thought they should make more of him being a spear user along with the claws. Give him a cool weapon befitting a king.

I think one of his tricks in Avengers Earth's Mightest Heroes was clasping his hands together and creating a vibranium spear from his energy claws which was really cool.

It would be cool to give him a combi spear like the Predators use.



Make it retractable and made out of vibranium with some cool designs.

[Marvell2100]

As I'm rereading some of Coates's work (I bailed after the first handful of issues in his very first arc, and then tried the Intergalactic Empire story and didn't like that either), I'm going to say the jury is out for me. Back then, I very much felt the same way you do, but while rereading it, I can't say yet (I've read the first seven issues) that he's taken power away from T'Challa. He's just shown him using it badly, and being more cynical, manipulative, and brutal than arguably he should be. But Coates has also shown him yearning to be more heroic. I think Coates's ideas about (straight) Black male masculinity and monarchy colored how he wrote T'Challa. I do think that how he writes his dialogue though feels like how T'Challa might talk.

I think that Coates portrayal as an out of touch king who didn't understand his own people/country was so far out of touch with who T'Challa was since his inception was a huge mistake. He did have T'Challa making dumb mistakes with his power/authority which resulted in him losing the respect and reverence of the Wakandan people. He wasn't someone that people looked up to anymore.

This is what I meant when I said that he lost power. His standing among the Wakandan people was severely damaged to the point were they had no respect for him. Ridley took that T'Challa and ran with it, further damaging T'Challa's reputation(that ass-kicking by Cap was the last straw). Ewing is playing in that sandbox, trying to do her own version of Born Again while casting T'Challa as some friendly neighborhood Black Panther. The man who once ran the most powerful nation on the planet is fighting muggers in alleyways.

Bryan Hill ain't having none of that.

[Ezyo1000]

I don't have an issue with Okoye really. It's more I think they could take advantage of it being an alternate reality and shake things up more. This first issue did feel very easy for people who know T'Challa mostly because of the MCU to get into, which isn't bad. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes sense from a growing the audience, financial perspective. But the comic nerd in me wouldn't mind playing around more, to really drive home how different this reality is. The twist with his advisor was a nice one though. And though I imagine that the T'Challa-Okoye marriage is a political one, and that he eventually might get with Storm, I wouldn't mind seeing T'Challa in a loving relationship for once right off. And if she's taken out later for Storm, I could accept that, but still, it would be nice to see this aspect of his character.

I gotcha, its kinda funny, I remember saying a while back that out of his cast I would rather see him with Okoye because she is then oat consistent character and has literally always been his rode or die from day 1. The only character that can boast that in his mythos. And so to see them together cool in that regard. I do wish it wasn't just political of im being honest. In this universe I would rather it be that they genuinely are attracted to each other.

Maybe there are political implications that could be played with, such as maybe this Version of the DM aren't just there to protect the Royal family, but in a sense are their own separate entity that operates as as separate bodying government that has it's own political sway. So them marrying is a way to consolidate the power of the Panther clan and DM into a mutually beneficial relationship. But as for the two themselves, they did it not for political gains, but personal wants. He needs a healthy relationship, a stable one, and to be honest, as long as she isn't apart of the BP Mythos Storm will NEVER be that. She will always come to with the baggage of the toxic x fanbase. I don't want him to end up with her. She can stay with Erik until the inevitable jump to the Ult x book. I just don't see value on the continual entanglement with Storm. That relationship is dead and Marvel only uses it to rope people in in these one shots with no actual intention of doing anything with it.

As for Coates, I've just started rereading (or really reading him for the first time), and I'm not discounting your thoughts about him. I was just more impressed with his first arc (I've just read the first seven issues) than I was back in the day. So that made me wonder if I had gotten him wrong. But I'm also keeping in mind that I'm reading him after Ridley and Dr. Ewing. Of the three, Coates's action scenes overall have been better (though Ewing depicts T'Challa as the more competent fighter), his villains are better realized, and his pacing (so far) is better, but that doesn't mean there aren't pacing problems. I think Dr. Ewing has written T'Challa as the most heroic, whereas Coates's take is more muddled, and Ridley does have disdain for the character.

Coates had good story ideas but lacked the skill and imagination to tell an engaging story. He was more soap box than epic story teller. He also completely didn't understand the character of T'Challa at all, and didn't care about his lore outside of using it to skew and criticize T'Challa, most of which wasn't even true. He also didn't have as much to say as he pretended especially when he had these drug put monologues but the story itself was just redundant and directionless. This only got worse after A nation.

I don't see how his fights were better as he relied CONSTANTLY on T'Challa getting hit so he could use the force push. I will say though that when he actually tried he DID have some solid fight scenes (so it appeared when he put it his mind to it, he could write a competent T'Challa) on Avengers of the new world and the first couple issues of intergalactic Wakanda.

But those were so few and far in-between. So I would say, between the 3, yes Coates had the best action scenes, however, he also had 35-40 more issues than his successors , but looking at what he produced the majority of the time, it's not much better than what they did (other than Ridley, he just HATED T'Challa that much)

[Ezyo1000]

It would be cool to give him a combi spear like the Predators use.



Make it retractable and made out of vibranium with some cool designs.

If they REALLY wanted to go wild with it. Change the spear of Bashenga into that combi spear like this image, and then change the energy daggers into A Mambele/kpinga/hunga munga/ as his thrown weapon. Those are super bad ass and would really draw from African roots with such unique weaponry

[Marvell2100]

They never did give us the identity of Khonshu and Ra.

I would make Khonshu the Ult U version of The Sphinx(Anath-Na Mut) and Ra the Ult U version of The Living Monolith(Ahmet Abdol). This would give us seldom used, familiar villains that are tied to Africa.

[KingNomarch]

It would be cool to give him a combi spear like the Predators use.



Make it retractable and made out of vibranium with some cool designs.

Didn’t the Avengers game do this with the spear of Bashenga or was just a retractable vibranium spear he used?

[Frontier]

That is a cool piece.

Ya know I always thought they should make more of him being a spear user along with the claws. Give him a cool weapon befitting a king.

I think one of his tricks in Avengers Earth's Mightest Heroes was clasping his hands together and creating a vibranium spear from his energy claws which was really cool.

EMH was peak with Black Panther's arsenal.

[4sake Baned]

This was a great start even though I have my concerns..

[Marvell2100]

Didn’t the Avengers game do this with the spear of Bashenga or was just a retractable vibranium spear he used?

I've never played the game so I don't know. I'm sure some of the gamers here might know.