T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2024

[Ekie]

Dont tell me you were in these Marvel meetings talking like that bro. You must not be plugged into what people are saying and thinking. Cause if anything there are far more people saying MBJ acting is holding back just how great that character is well drawn out.

Animated Killmonger is very one note and kinda forgettable (not saying thats you, just saying execution). So maybe you just saw surface when it came to the film as well.

And yall must have been paralyzed by Coates audacity to include that in his book. Cause its something yall just havent gotten over or just stopped reading there.

Truth is Coates mistake is that maybe We Were Eight Years in Power seemed like as much required reading as previous Black Panther comics. He took a very bold swing out of the gates and people werent ready for it. In fact I think if he could do it over again he would have scrapped that bit. Overall it would be better served as a graphic novel and not a per issue deal.

That killmonger haircut is everywhere for the reason RedJack said lol

Also Coates didn't come in with a bold swing. He came in an proclaimed the ppl before him who created or refined this story over time to be out of touch mysogonists and proclaimed he was going to "fix" this black male power fantasy as he called it.

Also yes, the rape camps in Wakanda will always have me in a chokehold.

[Redjack]

@Redjack

Different subject: Did/do you have any ideas for Mr. Terrific over at DC? The brother could really use some help.

yep.

I wanted to do a romantic adventure comic with Holt and Karen Star (DC established them as a couple and promptly forgot about it) showing how they met, fell in love and ended up married. The book would have been called Mr. and Mrs. Terrific or just THE TERRIFICS. "Power Girl" (who hasn't been a 'girl' since the 1980s.) would be renamed as Mrs. Terrific.

It would have the same tone as WORLD'S FINEST only with a happy "Batman" (Mr. Terrific) and a grumpy "Superman" (Power Girl).

[Marvell2100]

yep.

I wanted to do a romantic adventure comic with Holt and Karen Star (DC established them as a couple and promptly forgot about it) showing how they met, fell in love and ended up married. The book would have been called Mr. and Mrs. Terrific or just THE TERRIFICS. "Power Girl" (who hasn't been a 'girl' since the 1980s.) would be renamed as Mrs. Terrific.

It would have the same tone as WORLD'S FINEST only with a happy "Batman" (Mr. Terrific) and a grumpy "Superman" (Power Girl).

That would have been an interesting read. I would have preferred this over the Terrifics series from a few years ago. I enjoyed it but this take sounds a lot better.

[Overhazard]

yep.

I wanted to do a romantic adventure comic with Holt and Karen Star (DC established them as a couple and promptly forgot about it) showing how they met, fell in love and ended up married. The book would have been called Mr. and Mrs. Terrific or just THE TERRIFICS. "Power Girl" (who hasn't been a 'girl' since the 1980s.) would be renamed as Mrs. Terrific.

It would have the same tone as WORLD'S FINEST only with a happy "Batman" (Mr. Terrific) and a grumpy "Superman" (Power Girl).

Redjack, you are KILLING ME. I would have loved that book. Beats the pants off of what they're doing with PG now.

[Dariel81]

Killmonger hate is so forced

[Redjack]

Killmonger hate is so forced

I promise you, it's not. Not in my case, anyway.

But, then, I can tell the difference between a hero and a monster.

Mileage varies.

[Tofali]

Killmonger hate is so forced

I don't need to be forced to dislike a cia creation that was trained to destablize countries for the benefit of the US and coogler mixing killmonger's idealogy with Black liberation was even more off-putting.

[skyvolt2000]

He was a hotep with a gym membership, a red haired stepchild with a chip on his shoulder. He had a girlfriend who he shot in the head and killed, but too many fans were caught up in their lust fueled fantasies to see it. We never even learned her name.

Funny thing is he never stated WHO he as going after when he said "our enemies".

He could have been talking about anyone.

[Ezyo1000]

Yall going overboard means that one must go to extreme lengths just for you to recognize how overboard you're going.

Only a couple people complained about T'Challa in 2018. And it was more just Shuri being OP in intelligence. I was the critical one in terms of just disappointment in his final action scene. However, T'Challa was viewed very favorable. MBJ thinking Killmonger can challenge Thanos is a MBJ issue. Not a knock on T'Challa.

And in regards to Coates...i do dislike the fact really smart people just not seeing the gems and the good within it. But hey art is subjective. I never said Hill has to be Coates exactly. Just take some of the strong points and put his own spin on it.

You guys are Coates sensitive. So just substitute another writers name and you'll get what Im asking for is not that crazy.

The complaints about T'Challa were for the most part minor because there was an expectation that he still had 2 more movies, as well as any avengers movies to show up in to establish his super genius. But many of us said that while we liked the movie, we didn't like how T'Challa was as much the focus like other heroes and his movie felt more like a ensemble than a solo movie. People said they didn't like his intelligence being overshadowed, or his motivations as those are two HUGE core aspects, and they didn't like how he was written as not being progressive like the comics. BUT we could get past it as it was the start of the trilogy and this there was time to correct it. When Chad passed and they killed T'Challa in WF, all those issues were still prevalent, EXCEPT they were made worse because now they couldn't be fixed. Do atleast make sure you got all the right information.

As for Coates, no. It's not a gem, it wasn't nuanced, it was a very racist take on Black people and Africa. Straight up. It was amateur writing given full reign to completely trash the character and because Coates was "known" and people gave him a pass/ undeserved praise.

It isn't about being sensitive. Take his run and give it to. White writer changing nothing at all and see if would say the same

[Dariel81]

I don't need to be forced to dislike a cia creation that was trained to destablize countries for the benefit of the US and coogler mixing killmonger's idealogy with Black liberation was even more off-putting.

That’s why he was interesting and he one of the better MCU villains

[Ezyo1000]

Killmonger hate is so forced

It's not even hate. Erik was a good VILLAIN, out of MCU villains he is definitely among the top 3, however, movies goers and some Black folks went on that whole #killmongerwasright nonsense and spun him out into more than what he really is. And the comment from MBJ about Erik vs Thanos is just funny. But also points to how Ryan really went hard for his boy.

And just like with Shuri, ana Nakia, he went hard at the cost of T'Challa

[butterflykyss]

It is 100% Coates fault. He wrote a ishtty BP book but because critics were too busy giving ass pats and praising literally the most racist stereotypes of black folks and Africa that Coates was doing instead of calling it for what it was. Marvel went and tried to keep his sales up by constantly artificially inflating them. If that was Ewing, Hickman, or McKay that wrote Coates story thru would've been burned alive at the stake and marvel would've been scrambling to try and fix it.

Coates was a stain on the franchise and opened the door to the most damage to T'Challa and his franchise that it has ever seen in its 55+ years

I know you do not like Coates but I've talked to many bp fans outside this firum.whp very much so enjoyed his writings of tchalla. also I don't think anyone would dare say his tchalla was worse than ridleys either.

Coates did the exact same thing. He chose to ignore what Hickman did at the end of Secret War.

so if my memory serves me correct, Coates picks up right after tchalla left his sister as the planet was going to be destroyed due to harmonic conversion, right? it seems to me after having to make such a decision he would have questions on if such a responsibility should lie to only him as King. not saying it was the best choice but I understand why he chose this path for tchalla.

[Username taken]

nah.

BP was a solid movie that tapped into the longings of the Black American subculture while affording white fans the chance to root for a cool character who wasn't calling them all racists. It was a cultural event more than a film.

Killmonger was written as a self-obsessed serial killer and mass murderer with dreams of racial dictatorship.

There was no nuance there. Zero. Never confuse an actor's ability to transform a 1D character into a 3D one with that character being well-written. A good actor can elevate weak material.

In comics, Coates run capitalized on his real-world social relevance and popularity beyond the medium but gave a novice fiction writer free reign to filter his political views through a super-hero character at the expense of the core structures of that hero's universe. It was a marketing move, essentially. Writing comics is something seasoned fiction writers have a hard time wrapping their heads around. Screenwriters and novelists often pull their hair out when they try.

It's one of the most complicated and complex forms to attempt and they gave the premiere black super-hero to a person who'd never written any kind of fiction at all. On-the-job training at the expense of the character's status and sales.

If a white writer had written precisely the same things the same way, folks would have been picketing Marvel with torches.

The bolded part is the problem with the 616 comics.

[Mantis-Ray]

He was a hotep with a gym membership, a red haired stepchild with a chip on his shoulder. He had a girlfriend who he shot in the head and killed, but too many fans were caught up in their lust fueled fantasies to see it. We never even learned her name.

There's something amusing how people ignore this little tidbit, especially the women thirsty for him.

Killmonger is a great character but like any popular villain he suffers from fans whitewashing his behavior out of adoration for him. Thanos suffers from the exact problems, in people thinking his actions were justified.

[Overhazard]

There's something amusing how people ignore this little tidbit, especially the women thirsty for him.

Killmonger is a great character but like any popular villain he suffers from fans whitewashing his behavior out of adoration for him. Thanos suffers from the exact problems, in people thinking his actions were justified.

Loki gets it the worst, he led the chitauri invasion of earth, betrayed Thor several times, and brought earth to thanos's attention, but he's good looking, broods a lot, and has daddy issues, so it's all fine. I personally blame Tumblr and video essays.