T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2024

[Customizer]

Then they don't need to be there.

Not paying to read about them.

Had enough of others having to save T'Challa.

At $5 an issue and the last 8 years of nonsense-not paying for waiting and seeing nor to see T'Challa chumped for Storm.

Huh.

Twice in one day.

Yes.

THIS.

See, this is the most annoying part! When I sit here and look at all the shots they did call on books that ended up being just horrible takes, and yet they don't want to let a writer that desires to write and elevate character that fills a sorely lacking niche like a Blue Marvel does. NOBODY...has the guts to pull that trigger?? The aversion to certain writers doing certain characters to just out right odd.

Speculating on the motivations and logic behind those (lack of) decisions could lead one to becoming ... conspiratorial.

[Redjack]

But would you don't if Marvel approached you to write BP like they apparently have for for Coates Eve and Ridley?

Let's game that out.

Say they do ask me.

My response would be, "Sure but, my first 3-5 issues will basically erase everything that came before. We'd be setting things back to roughly the time of SEE WAKANDA AND DIE. I would leave a backdoor for the next writer to come and revert things to the Coates era version but, while I'm writing, NONE of that will be in effect."

And, I mean none. That erases everything since Coates came in, the Ridley stuff which means, sadly, despite the quality of her work, Dr. Ewing's as well. No Space Empire. No Wakandan democracy. No "Goddess" Storm. No Queen Storm. No Griot. None of it. The version of BP you saw in KiB is the version I'd write as the baseline.

Think they'll agree to that?

No chance.

[Marvell2100]

Let's game that out.

Say they do ask me.

My response would be, "Sure but, my first 3-5 issues will basically erase everything that came before. We'd be setting things back to roughly the time of SEE WAKANDA AND DIE. I would leave a backdoor for the next writer to come and revert things to the Coates era version but, while I'm writing, NONE of that will be in effect."

And, I mean none. That erases everything since Coates came in, the Ridley stuff which means, sadly, despite the quality of her work, Dr. Ewing's as well. No Space Empire. No Wakandan democracy. No "Goddess" Storm. No Queen Storm. No Griot. None of it. The version of BP you saw in KiB is the version I'd write as the baseline.

Think they'll agree to that?

No chance.

The sad part of this is that at some point, they will have to put some things back to the way they were pre-Coates but they will have wasted years of good BP stories in the process.

I read Jason Aaron's Thor and he he was deconstructed but he put things back to the point where Thor became King of Asgard.

Chip Zdarsky, same thing with Daredevil. Stripped down, then put things tight before he left.

But BP? nah, we gotta watch the slow, painful downfall of a great character with no prospects of things getting better. 616 wise anyway.

[Ezyo1000]

Let's game that out.

Say they do ask me.

My response would be, "Sure but, my first 3-5 issues will basically erase everything that came before. We'd be setting things back to roughly the time of SEE WAKANDA AND DIE. I would leave a backdoor for the next writer to come and revert things to the Coates era version but, while I'm writing, NONE of that will be in effect."

And, I mean none. That erases everything since Coates came in, the Ridley stuff which means, sadly, despite the quality of her work, Dr. Ewing's as well. No Space Empire. No Wakandan democracy. No "Goddess" Storm. No Queen Storm. No Griot. None of it. The version of BP you saw in KiB is the version I'd write as the baseline.

Think they'll agree to that?

No chance.

I mean, who knows? They know that the current direction failed. At some point these characters have to return to status quo. It's been almost a decade since he has been reverted. MCU is dead and they aren't pushing none of that WK stuff on comics because it doesn't sell. If Hill comes correct and the book keeps its sales maybe it will be the kick on the pants to course correct for marvel.

Honestly they are sitting on a gold mine, people want to enjoy BP. There's gotta be a chance

[chief12d]

The sad part of this is that at some point, they will have to put some things back to the way they were pre-Coates but they will have wasted years of good BP stories in the process.

I read Jason Aaron's Thor and he he was deconstructed but he put things back to the point where Thor became King of Asgard.

Chip Zdarsky, same thing with Daredevil. Stripped down, then put things tight before he left.

But BP? nah, we gotta watch the slow, painful downfall of a great character with no prospects of things getting better. 616 wise anyway.

If sales on Ultimate Black Panther hold I could see Marvel shifting some things around in 616. 616 Panther is simply not sellable right now, enough readers have disengaged from the book that there’s gonna need to be a huge shift in approach and status quo to bring people back. Ridley could be written off as a fluke but two back to back failed runs is a repudiation of Marvel’s direction for T’Challa.

Hill is saying in interviews that he’s not doing what the last few runs have been doing and his sales are much better (for now). While I don’t think an editor would want to import the Ultimate universe’s status quo, Hill’s willingness to think of high concept stories for the character with a more recognizable voice is something they’ll want in 616. I think the readership is thoroughly tired of BP deconstruction and any future runs focused on T’Challa’s alienation from his people, the exile/democracy, or space Wakanda seemed destined for a quick cancellation.

[AJpyro]

Let's game that out.

Say they do ask me.

My response would be, "Sure but, my first 3-5 issues will basically erase everything that came before. We'd be setting things back to roughly the time of SEE WAKANDA AND DIE. I would leave a backdoor for the next writer to come and revert things to the Coates era version but, while I'm writing, NONE of that will be in effect."

And, I mean none. That erases everything since Coates came in, the Ridley stuff which means, sadly, despite the quality of her work, Dr. Ewing's as well. No Space Empire. No Wakandan democracy. No "Goddess" Storm. No Queen Storm. No Griot. None of it. The version of BP you saw in KiB is the version I'd write as the baseline.

Think they'll agree to that?

No chance.

I don't see why not. They did so with other runs like Spiderman and the Ironman.

[Redjack]

I don't see why not. They did so with other runs like Spiderman and the Ironman.

not to put too fine a point on it but, I'm not in the club that gets perks like that.

your best bet is to put hope into the notion that Ultimate BP is Hill auditioning to take over 616 BP.

And, if he's allowed to, that he won't be bound by the BS era that came before.

[Marvell2100]

If sales on Ultimate Black Panther hold I could see Marvel shifting some things around in 616. 616 Panther is simply not sellable right now, enough readers have disengaged from the book that there’s gonna need to be a huge shift in approach and status quo to bring people back. Ridley could be written off as a fluke but two back to back failed runs is a repudiation of Marvel’s direction for T’Challa.

Hill is saying in interviews that he’s not doing what the last few runs have been doing and his sales are much better (for now). While I don’t think an editor would want to import the Ultimate universe’s status quo, Hill’s willingness to think of high concept stories for the character with a more recognizable voice is something they’ll want in 616. I think the readership is thoroughly tired of BP deconstruction and any future runs focused on T’Challa’s alienation from his people, the exile/democracy, or space Wakanda seemed destined for a quick cancellation.

I don't mind them keeping IGEW around because it would distinguish it from Ultimate BP. And yeah, I'm sick and tired of deconstruction in comics (I read Iron Man and he's as bad off as T'Challa). Who ever the next writer is will need to come out of the gate strong with BP. It has to be established right off the bat that T'Challa is King, strong and in charge. There's going to have to be some impressive feats very early on.

If Hill gives us a strong T'Challa that has a spine with some impressive feats to go along with it, that will raise the bar for the next 616 BP writer. So far, the only person that we know of who can do just that is Redjack but like he said, he's not waiting around for them to decide and you can't really blame him.

[Emperorjones]

I also liked the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda as a concept. I think it opens doors for more cosmic stories. While I overall didn't care for how Coates wrote T'Challa or saw Wakanda, I do think his worldbuilding was one of his strongest aspects. I wouldn't throw out everything from his run. There's little to keep with Ridley, and not that much with Ewing's truncated run either. There's basically one character introduced during Ewing's run that I could see in other BP/Marvel books. I don't see any of Ridley's being used again.

[Ezyo1000]

The only thing Worth Keeping from Coates is the aesthetics of Wakanda, the Force push and lighting up of the habit, and Shuri becoming a wizard Instead of taking T'Challas genius. Everything else from his run, Ridley and Ewings can all be torched.

The IGEW is good in concept, but how it was created is absolutely garbage and does nothing but leave a stain on the entire thing and the franchise. Maybe they can try again another time

[Mantis-Ray]

I'd say we need more weird fun adventures and villains.

I'm always reminded of this villain concept I came up with River-Rot, basically a frog demon who is always in a jar, travels between jars, and only ever shows it eyes to other people. Functioning a sinister trickster spirit who wants to case chaos and does so by manipulating people, granting them powers, and turning them into frog people.

Bring in a wackiness, high concept stuff. The recent runs have been deadly serious and only feature villains who represent the "dark side of Wakanda's past", its all very boring.

[Emperorjones]

The only thing Worth Keeping from Coates is the aesthetics of Wakanda, the Force push and lighting up of the habit, and Shuri becoming a wizard Instead of taking T'Challas genius. Everything else from his run, Ridley and Ewings can all be torched.

The IGEW is good in concept, but how it was created is absolutely garbage and does nothing but leave a stain on the entire thing and the franchise. Maybe they can try again another time

I would also keep the things you said. To me, a lot of Coates's run had decent to good ideas, but weren't always executed well. The People weren't a bad idea, but not well executed in part because of Coates's refusal to hold Zenzi accountable for her actions. I also would keep his Orishas, and a lot of the words he introduced for things. I also liked the revival of Kasper Cole and his new suit. More could've been done with Ras the Exhorter and Klaw/Stane too.

[Marvell2100]

The only thing Worth Keeping from Coates is the aesthetics of Wakanda, the Force push and lighting up of the habit, and Shuri becoming a wizard Instead of taking T'Challas genius. Everything else from his run, Ridley and Ewings can all be torched.

The IGEW is good in concept, but how it was created is absolutely garbage and does nothing but leave a stain on the entire thing and the franchise. Maybe they can try again another time

I agree, Coates execution of the IGEW was just terrible. The concept is good. Maybe not start out right away with an empire but why not have Wakanda space explorers.

[Marvell2100]

I had a list of Marvel comics/characters I REALLY wanted to write

PROWLER (HOBIE BROWN)
BLACK PANTHER (T'CHALLA)
JERICHO DRUMM
NIGHT THRASHER
BLUE MARVEL
LILA CHENEY

Odds are high I'm never getting to write these.

Corporate/editorial vision on these characters is nowhere near the stories I want to tell with them and what they ARE doing is nothing I'm interested in writing. This is why I basically put all this behind me and have said, if this last round of pitches don't land, I'm not wasting any more time on the big two.

For Marvel I'm down to two more pitches. If those don't land, I'm done for good. I'll be releasing my own indie comics and only those.

Corporate comics are a minefield and the money's just nowhere near good enough to walk through it unless I LOVE what I'm doing. Definitely not in it for the $$$$$.

So, if it's not fun, your boy is done.

See, this is the most annoying part! When I sit here and look at all the shots they did call on books that ended up being just horrible takes, and yet they don't want to let a writer that desires to write and elevate character that fills a sorely lacking niche like a Blue Marvel does. NOBODY...has the guts to pull that trigger?? The aversion to certain writers doing certain characters to just out right odd.

Definitely wanted to see what would have been done with Hobie. He's one of those characters that was actually get some kind of progression and being developed.

[Ezyo1000]

I would also keep the things you said. To me, a lot of Coates's run had decent to good ideas, but weren't always executed well. The People weren't a bad idea, but not well executed in part because of Coates's refusal to hold Zenzi accountable for her actions. I also would keep his Orishas, and a lot of the words he introduced for things. I also liked the revival of Kasper Cole and his new suit. More could've been done with Ras the Exhorter and Klaw/Stane too.

Man, F*** the orishas, they were one of the dumbest additions to the mythos ever. They're whole creation was two fold. Primarily to give the excuse and bullisht that if people simply prayed hard enough, someone could ascend to godhood so that he could make Storm a god. And second was to take away what made Wakanda special. The orisha protected them and develop technology. They did everything thing to make Wakanda as great as it was. Not Wakandans doing it of their own ingenuity and ability. They can die right along with Zenzi Bast, Tosin, and every other let character added to the mythos