T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2024

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Coates brings out the worst in people. He truly is one of one.

More animosity towards him than Ridley is proof even his biggest doubters know he cooked in some areas. Its not even as much you hated everything you just hated how precise and deliberate in not giving you what you wanted.

I've said before but some of the greatest movies/books/music of all time had about a decade of people not knowing what to make of them. Not saying its that, but the appreciation for his work might be from those that follow us.

[Username taken]

Coates brings out the worst in people. He truly is one of one.

More animosity towards him than Ridley is proof even his biggest doubters know he cooked in some areas. Its not even as much you hated everything you just hated how precise and deliberate in not giving you what you wanted.

I've said before but some of the greatest movies/books/music of all time had about a decade of people not knowing what to make of them. Not saying its that, but the appreciation for his work might be from those that follow us.

A Nation Under Feet taken in isolation and without any previous context was a good work. What Coates was going for was how the flooding of Wakanda led to divisions in the country. The problem is how he implemented this, he went overboard with the 1:1 analogy of every single African problem. That plus the fact that showing the Midnight Angels as being right for defying their leadership isn't actually a good thing.

I feel Ridley was worse than Coates because his singular goal was to get T'Challa off the throne and he twisted characterization and logic to achieve this.

I mean, Ridley had Wakanda reach out to Namor, the man that almost destroyed them. This is illogical, even if T'Challa had made peace with Namor, there's no way the rest of the country would accept that. That plus almost everything T'Challa did was seen as wrong while Folashade and co were always right, the book somehow blamed T'Challa for Folashade's actions. It was all quite silly.

[Mantis-Ray]

A Nation Under Feet taken in isolation and without any previous context was a good work. What Coates was going for was how the flooding of Wakanda led to divisions in the country. The problem is how he implemented this, he went overboard with the 1:1 analogy of every single African problem. That plus the fact that showing the Midnight Angels as being right for defying their leadership isn't actually a good thing.

I feel Ridley was worse than Coates because his singular goal was to get T'Challa off the throne and he twisted characterization and logic to achieve this.

I mean, Ridley had Wakanda reach out to Namor, the man that almost destroyed them. This is illogical, even if T'Challa had made peace with Namor, there's no way the rest of the country would accept that. That plus almost everything T'Challa did was seen as wrong while Folashade and co were always right, the book somehow blamed T'Challa for Folashade's actions. It was all quite silly.

Ridley's whole Atlantis alliance made the Wakandan's straight-up incomprehensible.

Like okay they hold BP responsible for the Namor floodings, its petty as hell but it makes enough sense. There is a logic that they are pissed off that BP hasn't hunted down the man and brought his head in. Sure they are still assholes but there is a logic to it.

But them siding with Namor to get rid of BP is when it pushes everything into nonsensical irrational hatred. They now hate BP for not attacking Atlantis so much they would...... ally with Atlantis to kick him out.

It doesn't make any sense no matter how you put it. Even if the reason was just to exile BP it still doesn't make any fucking sense.

[MindofShadow]

More animosity towards him than Ridley is proof even his biggest doubters know he cooked in some areas. .

Ridley had one, short run that everyone hates and no one defends.

Coates had domination of the title for 5+ years while bringing in mroe literary types to dump on T'challa at every opportunity at the height of BP's popularity.


It isn't the same comparison at all.

[Marvell2100]

Coates brings out the worst in people. He truly is one of one.

More animosity towards him than Ridley is proof even his biggest doubters know he cooked in some areas. Its not even as much you hated everything you just hated how precise and deliberate in not giving you what you wanted.

I've said before but some of the greatest movies/books/music of all time had about a decade of people not knowing what to make of them. Not saying its that, but the appreciation for his work might be from those that follow us.

Nah, Coates created a mess out of BP and Wakanda. Some people just voiced their disapproval in some very strong terms.

Ridley followed up Coates 5+ years of Bland Panther with even more crap.

Time and distance won't change any of that.

[KingNomarch]

Yeah Coates’ run has a longer and broader negative impact on the franchise while Ridley put out a garbage series, plus Ridley’s run was a product of Coates’ mess

[Redjack]

Coates brings out the worst in people. He truly is one of one.

More animosity towards him than Ridley is proof even his biggest doubters know he cooked in some areas. Its not even as much you hated everything you just hated how precise and deliberate in not giving you what you wanted.

nope.

Marvel editorial allowed him to create a version of Wakanda and the Black Panther that shat on everything that had come before in such a way that no one can course-correct without admitting they were wrong.

it was amateurish work from a novice who should never have gotten near a flagship title only buoyed by glorious artwork.

I have no personal feelings about Coates (or Ridley for that matter). I have no idea what sort of people they are. I do know what was done to the franchise by them is a nearly impossible fix now. They gutted something several more gifted creators took a decade+ to build and now we're all sitting here discussing how to put the sticks and rubble back together.

I've said before but some of the greatest movies/books/music of all time had about a decade of people not knowing what to make of them. Not saying it's that, but the appreciation for his work might be from those that follow us.

Not if they like superheroes.

[marvelprince]

And yet, that is what they started doing, they literally pulled him out of everything, all upward trajectory gone and villianizing him and promoting Tosin as "The future".



Priest fleshed out Wakanda to be a feel like a real yet unique place to the rest of the world and Africa. It felt grounded in how groups had different thoughts and opinions and demanded that of T'Challa, yet it also felt fantastical and unlike anything on earth. Notice didn't turn it into stereotypical racist depictions of what the West views Africa.

No where did I state that Wakanda never had problems.

This is what I said "A fictional super advanced country that never had the foundational problems of a real one, can't have the problems of a real country. A lot of African countries problems come directly from colonialism and the borderline insane drawing of borders". This isn't complicated.

Coates directly transplanted the problems of [I]some[/I ]real-life African countries onto Wakanda and that doesn't make sense. It's pretty straightforward to be honest. Wakanda's existence doesn't really parallel any African country (or any country in the world for that matter), so Coates digging out problems from countries that in geography don't even reflect African history is idiotic. I repeat, a lot of Africa's problems come directly from colonialism and how their borders were drawn, how tribes were put together without any rhyme and reason and how their resources were plundered. In which reality does any of this apply to Wakanda? Even if one wants to apply real world to Wakanda, using the worst stereotypical portrayal of Africans is seriously problematic. It's basically saying that no matter how rich or successful they are, this is what they turn into during conflict. This is regurgitating the white supremacist argument (in a different form) that suggests that black people are inherently violent and criminal.

Different countries have different problems, it's up to the writer to get creative and apply more appropriate problems (and solutions) to Wakanda. Priest did this, even McGregor did this, but it never got to the arrant nonsense that we got under Coates and Ridley. If we suddenly saw "Rape Camps" in Asgard, folks will be confused as to why this is happening because it doesn't make sense.

Storytelling needs to make sense regardless of the medium.

Look you hate Coates run, that clear and thats fine. But this is the most ridiculous and contrived argument I think I have ever encountered. Wakanda is not the first, and won't be last fictional city, to have real world politics or policies transplanted onto it. No one seemed to think it was the end of the world when Asgard shifted to a parliament but applying democracy to Black Panther is somehow sacrilegious?

"A fictional super advanced country that never had the foundational problems of a real one, can't have the problems of a real country. A lot of African countries problems come directly from colonialism and the borderline insane drawing of borders".

Do you even read comic books? Ultra advanced societies with real world problems have been the norm since the medium existed. And Coates did not just apply the same problems that real world countries have, he used the history established with Wakanda's isolation to envision what kind of conflict would arise from that.

But besides all that, it literally is a fictional medium so the writer can do whatever they want. Whether or not that works for you is another thing, but this BS rule about real world problems in fictional cities doesn't make any sort of sense.

[Username taken]

Look you hate Coates run, that clear and thats fine. But this is the most ridiculous and contrived argument I think I have ever encountered. Wakanda is not the first, and won't be last fictional city, to have real world politics or policies transplanted onto it. No one seemed to think it was the end of the world when Asgard shifted to a parliament but applying democracy to Black Panther is somehow sacrilegious?

"A fictional super advanced country that never had the foundational problems of a real one, can't have the problems of a real country. A lot of African countries problems come directly from colonialism and the borderline insane drawing of borders".

Do you even read comic books? Ultra advanced societies with real world problems have been the norm since the medium existed. And Coates did not just apply the same problems that real world countries have, he used the history established with Wakanda's isolation to envision what kind of conflict would arise from that.

But besides all that, it literally is a fictional medium so the writer can do whatever they want. Whether or not that works for you is another thing, but this BS rule about real world problems in fictional cities doesn't make any sort of sense.

Changed my mind, not feeding them.

[Marvell2100]

Yeah Coates’ run has a longer and broader negative impact on the franchise while Ridley put out a garbage series, plus Ridley’s run was a product of Coates’ mess

Pretty much. Coates built this mess, ran with it for over five years and didn't clean up the mess he left. Ridley moved into that house and added another wing to the mess.

[Ezyo1000]

Look you hate Coates run, that clear and thats fine. But this is the most ridiculous and contrived argument I think I have ever encountered. Wakanda is not the first, and won't be last fictional city, to have real world politics or policies transplanted onto it. No one seemed to think it was the end of the world when Asgard shifted to a parliament but applying democracy to Black Panther is somehow sacrilegious?

"A fictional super advanced country that never had the foundational problems of a real one, can't have the problems of a real country. A lot of African countries problems come directly from colonialism and the borderline insane drawing of borders".

Do you even read comic books? Ultra advanced societies with real world problems have been the norm since the medium existed. And Coates did not just apply the same problems that real world countries have, he used the history established with Wakanda's isolation to envision what kind of conflict would arise from that.

But besides all that, it literally is a fictional medium so the writer can do whatever they want. Whether or not that works for you is another thing, but this BS rule about real world problems in fictional cities doesn't make any sort of sense.

So did Asgard become a parliament because there was apparently unchecked and blatantly obvious rape and murder happening? With Thor being too busy and when he learns of it basically shrugging his shoulders? All because the writer in question couldn't work his head around Black excellence so he decides to add nearly every racial stereotype to Wakanda? Pushing the idea that even the most advanced nation on earth, the minute they have some setbacks they apparently devolved into complete westernize lensed savagery?

But sure ignore the context and all the damaging imagery Coates put and try and reduce it down to just hating Coates.

[Will Evans]

What’s the status of all of T’Challa’s love interests, beside Storm:

Monica Lynn: dead
Nakia: evil and dead
Shanna: married to Ka-Zar
Malaika: ??
Princess Zanda: still appears sometimes
Nikki Addams: dead

Who else am I missing?

[Frontier]

Look you hate Coates run, that clear and thats fine. But this is the most ridiculous and contrived argument I think I have ever encountered. Wakanda is not the first, and won't be last fictional city, to have real world politics or policies transplanted onto it. No one seemed to think it was the end of the world when Asgard shifted to a parliament but applying democracy to Black Panther is somehow sacrilegious?

"A fictional super advanced country that never had the foundational problems of a real one, can't have the problems of a real country. A lot of African countries problems come directly from colonialism and the borderline insane drawing of borders".

Do you even read comic books? Ultra advanced societies with real world problems have been the norm since the medium existed. And Coates did not just apply the same problems that real world countries have, he used the history established with Wakanda's isolation to envision what kind of conflict would arise from that.

But besides all that, it literally is a fictional medium so the writer can do whatever they want. Whether or not that works for you is another thing, but this BS rule about real world problems in fictional cities doesn't make any sort of sense.

I guess the better question would be is if what Coates introduced to it actually benefited the franchise or Wakanda as a setting at all.

[Marvell2100]

What’s the status of all of T’Challa’s love interests, beside Storm:

Monica Lynn: dead
Nakia: evil and dead
Shanna: married to Ka-Zar
Malaika: ??
Princess Zanda: still appears sometimes
Nikki Addams: dead

Who else am I missing?

I think that's it. There was something going on with BP and Shanna?

Just thought of something, even in alt realities, BP is always married to Storm. No other match-ups.

[Will Evans]

I think that's it. There was something going on with BP and Shanna?

Just thought of something, even in alt realities, BP is always married to Storm. No other match-ups.

In House of M, Shanna was in his harem with Monica Lynn.

I’m surprised no modern writer has brought Malaika back.