T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2024

[Marvell2100]

I stand corrected He could have really written the hell out of BP if he wanted to but bygones I guess.

And there we have it. A chance to change course from the previous run and instead we get BP being pummeled by Cap in his own book because.

[Emperorjones]

I also believe that Marvel wanted to kill off T'Challa and that's what Ridley was setting up, however, they swerved (I credit it more to the underperformance (relative) of Wakanda Forever, which arguably happened in part because of E-Man's recast movement and others), so they swerved. Maybe, Ridley's Tosin was going to be set up to be the successor, but when plans changed and they decided to keep T'Challa alive, Ridley took out his frustration on T'Challa's reputation. He wasn't able to literally kill the character, but he did do a character assassination. I think Marvel was largely fine with this because they might still have been entertaining plans to focus more on the mantle of Black Panther and Wakanda and a weakened, despised T'Challa would make that easier to sell alternatives to readers (or so they thought).

With Ridley's pedigree I was hoping for a much better take on the character than I felt (at the time) Coates had done. But I also consider that maybe Ridley's interest in writing mainstream superhero comics just wasn't there for DC or Marvel, outside of his widely touted Other Side of DC (I think that was the name, I never read it). While his I Am Batman series was better overall, it also had contempt for Black males (Lucius Fox in particular, and Luke wasn't even in the book), underdeveloped villains, unexciting action, and slow pacing. The biggest plus was Ridley seemed to like Jace Fox a lot more than he did T'Challa. Though I imagine that's because he turned Jace into a self-insert for his son (s). And perhaps his T'Challa became a reflection of himself, and his own (suspected) self-loathing.

[Marvell2100]

I also believe that Marvel wanted to kill off T'Challa and that's what Ridley was setting up, however, they swerved (I credit it more to the underperformance (relative) of Wakanda Forever, which arguably happened in part because of E-Man's recast movement and others), so they swerved. Maybe, Ridley's Tosin was going to be set up to be the successor, but when plans changed and they decided to keep T'Challa alive, Ridley took out his frustration on T'Challa's reputation. He wasn't able to literally kill the character, but he did do a character assassination. I think Marvel was largely fine with this because they might still have been entertaining plans to focus more on the mantle of Black Panther and Wakanda and a weakened, despised T'Challa would make that easier to sell alternatives to readers (or so they thought).

With Ridley's pedigree I was hoping for a much better take on the character than I felt (at the time) Coates had done. But I also consider that maybe Ridley's interest in writing mainstream superhero comics just wasn't there for DC or Marvel, outside of his widely touted Other Side of DC (I think that was the name, I never read it). While his I Am Batman series was better overall, it also had contempt for Black males (Lucius Fox in particular, and Luke wasn't even in the book), underdeveloped villains, unexciting action, and slow pacing. The biggest plus was Ridley seemed to like Jace Fox a lot more than he did T'Challa. Though I imagine that's because he turned Jace into a self-insert for his son (s). And perhaps his T'Challa became a reflection of himself, and his own (suspected) self-loathing.

So Marvel kills 616 BP, replaces him with Toxin and then launches UBP to placate pissed off Panther fans. And they think this would work.

They must not understand the irrationality of BP fans. We want both.

[skyvolt2000]

I also believe that Marvel wanted to kill off T'Challa and that's what Ridley was setting up, however, they swerved (I credit it more to the underperformance (relative) of Wakanda Forever, which arguably happened in part because of E-Man's recast movement and others), so they swerved. Maybe, Ridley's Tosin was going to be set up to be the successor, but when plans changed and they decided to keep T'Challa alive, Ridley took out his frustration on T'Challa's reputation. He wasn't able to literally kill the character, but he did do a character assassination. I think Marvel was largely fine with this because they might still have been entertaining plans to focus more on the mantle of Black Panther and Wakanda and a weakened, despised T'Challa would make that easier to sell alternatives to readers (or so they thought).

With Ridley's pedigree I was hoping for a much better take on the character than I felt (at the time) Coates had done. But I also consider that maybe Ridley's interest in writing mainstream superhero comics just wasn't there for DC or Marvel, outside of his widely touted Other Side of DC (I think that was the name, I never read it). While his I Am Batman series was better overall, it also had contempt for Black males (Lucius Fox in particular, and Luke wasn't even in the book), underdeveloped villains, unexciting action, and slow pacing. The biggest plus was Ridley seemed to like Jace Fox a lot more than he did T'Challa. Though I imagine that's because he turned Jace into a self-insert for his son (s). And perhaps his T'Challa became a reflection of himself, and his own (suspected) self-loathing.

Ridley on Other Side of DC Universe-if you just read that-you would NOT have expected what we got in his Panther run. He did more in ONE issue with Malcolm Duncan than DC has done with him in 50+ years. Same to a point with Black Lightning. While some got offended that Ridley would have Jefferson resent Superman for being welcomed as an alien but his race was still viewed as inferiors.

As for killing off T'Challa to "pander" to a certain segment. Was NEVER going to work if they were trying with Shuri in that suit. She can't get past issue 12 and her last run got axed despite her outperforming a book that lasted 2 years after her run was axed in Runaways.

Roxanne Gay and her crew can't shame every black man if Shuri was the lead in the book. They are going to attack comic book stores too?

Tosin? You might have gotten away with it for maybe a year but the pushback to killing T'Challa wasn't going to work.

[Ezyo1000]

Ridley on Other Side of DC Universe-if you just read that-you would NOT have expected what we got in his Panther run. He did more in ONE issue with Malcolm Duncan than DC has done with him in 50+ years. Same to a point with Black Lightning. While some got offended that Ridley would have Jefferson resent Superman for being welcomed as an alien but his race was still viewed as inferiors.

As for killing off T'Challa to "pander" to a certain segment. Was NEVER going to work if they were trying with Shuri in that suit. She can't get past issue 12 and her last run got axed despite her outperforming a book that lasted 2 years after her run was axed in Runaways.

Roxanne Gay and her crew can't shame every black man if Shuri was the lead in the book. They are going to attack comic book stores too?

Tosin? You might have gotten away with it for maybe a year but the pushback to killing T'Challa wasn't going to work.

I mean, they would definitely try to shame Black males. Shuris last book by nnedi has her trying to claim the reason she never was a contender for the throne and supposedly never got the same education or training as T'Challa was due to her being "Born the wrong gender" and continued to insinuate that ad the reason Wakandans didn't accept her was was complete utter BS. So I don't think for a second they wouldn't use that even if T'Challa was killed off. World of Wakanda already tried that isht by having male Wakandans try and treat the DM as less than or inferior. They have no issues putting Western views and biases on the fictional nation of Wakanda who should NOT be exposed to that or have such views. It's supposed to be this advanced Afrofuturistic Utopia and they are hellbent on turning it the worst stereotypes of Africa and black people

[Marvell2100]

Ridley on Other Side of DC Universe-if you just read that-you would NOT have expected what we got in his Panther run. He did more in ONE issue with Malcolm Duncan than DC has done with him in 50+ years. Same to a point with Black Lightning. While some got offended that Ridley would have Jefferson resent Superman for being welcomed as an alien but his race was still viewed as inferiors.

As for killing off T'Challa to "pander" to a certain segment. Was NEVER going to work if they were trying with Shuri in that suit. She can't get past issue 12 and her last run got axed despite her outperforming a book that lasted 2 years after her run was axed in Runaways.

Roxanne Gay and her crew can't shame every black man if Shuri was the lead in the book. They are going to attack comic book stores too?

Tosin? You might have gotten away with it for maybe a year but the pushback to killing T'Challa wasn't going to work.

Yeah, both of those were pretty good reads. That approach doesn't work for BP because he isn't facing the same kind of issues as an African-American hero would.

[Emperorjones]

John Ridley's latest project:

SHIRLEY | Official Trailer | Netflix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjBeKNHIdMY

[Tofali]

Tosin? You might have gotten away with it for maybe a year but the pushback to killing T'Challa wasn't going to work.

Poor Tosin lol! I remember the books solicits claiming that he was a "fan-favorite" They were really showing their hand ithere.

[Tofali]

John Ridley's latest project:

SHIRLEY | Official Trailer | Netflix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjBeKNHIdMY

She is the perfect subject for his writing.

[Ezyo1000]

Poor Tosin lol! I remember the books solicits claiming that he was a "fan-favorite" They were really showing their hand ithere.

Or how Ridley at the end said that Buffalo Soldier has a fan following? Like, who TF were enjoying these wack ass 2 dimensional characters. They came off pretty cringey. Tosin, buffalo and the murder trip or whatever those alien's called themselves that were supposed to be funny

[chief12d]

I also believe that Marvel wanted to kill off T'Challa and that's what Ridley was setting up, however, they swerved (I credit it more to the underperformance (relative) of Wakanda Forever, which arguably happened in part because of E-Man's recast movement and others), so they swerved. Maybe, Ridley's Tosin was going to be set up to be the successor, but when plans changed and they decided to keep T'Challa alive, Ridley took out his frustration on T'Challa's reputation. He wasn't able to literally kill the character, but he did do a character assassination. I think Marvel was largely fine with this because they might still have been entertaining plans to focus more on the mantle of Black Panther and Wakanda and a weakened, despised T'Challa would make that easier to sell alternatives to readers (or so they thought).

With Ridley's pedigree I was hoping for a much better take on the character than I felt (at the time) Coates had done. But I also consider that maybe Ridley's interest in writing mainstream superhero comics just wasn't there for DC or Marvel, outside of his widely touted Other Side of DC (I think that was the name, I never read it). While his I Am Batman series was better overall, it also had contempt for Black males (Lucius Fox in particular, and Luke wasn't even in the book), underdeveloped villains, unexciting action, and slow pacing. The biggest plus was Ridley seemed to like Jace Fox a lot more than he did T'Challa. Though I imagine that's because he turned Jace into a self-insert for his son (s). And perhaps his T'Challa became a reflection of himself, and his own (suspected) self-loathing.

Ridley’s run either started off with the intention of killing T’Challa off or was designed to sideline the character in future stories. Whatever the intent, MCU synergy was the obvious endgame and if sales hadn’t collapsed so completely T’Challa probably wouldn’t be present in 616 at all.

Ultimate BP reads like a book meant as an apology letter for years of failed stories with T’Challa. It’s not hard at all to imagine a world where T’Challa sacrificed himself at the end of a longer Ridley run and this book was introduced to placate fans while Tosin/Shuri were Panther in 616.

[MindofShadow]

and if sales hadn’t collapsed so completely T’Challa probably wouldn’t be present in 616 at all.

Which is reason #34543243 you don't buy shitty books to "support the character"

[Marvell2100]

I mean, they would definitely try to shame Black males. Shuris last book by nnedi has her trying to claim the reason she never was a contender for the throne and supposedly never got the same education or training as T'Challa was due to her being "Born the wrong gender" and continued to insinuate that ad the reason Wakandans didn't accept her was was complete utter BS. So I don't think for a second they wouldn't use that even if T'Challa was killed off. World of Wakanda already tried that isht by having male Wakandans try and treat the DM as less than or inferior. They have no issues putting Western views and biases on the fictional nation of Wakanda who should NOT be exposed to that or have such views. It's supposed to be this advanced Afrofuturistic Utopia and they are hellbent on turning it the worst stereotypes of Africa and black people

It's really ridiculous how these writers come to these kind of conclusions about characters without ever reading previous runs. If they had bothered to read anything prior to Coates, they would know that Shuri was educated, did become Black Panther and women were not marginalized.

But why let facts get in the way of a lousy story.

[Overhazard]

It's really ridiculous how these writers come to these kind of conclusions about characters without ever reading previous runs. If they had bothered to read anything prior to Coates, they would know that Shuri was educated, did become Black Panther and women were not marginalized.

But why let facts get in the way of a lousy story.

It seems like a mixture of arrogance and presentism on the part of the writers. The assumption that an African nation, even one advanced as Wakanda would be backwards in terms of views of gender, and that they and only they can fix it. When what they actually did was make things worse.

[Ezyo1000]

Which is reason #34543243 you don't buy shitty books to "support the character"

Bu-but if we don't than Marvel will think no one is interested in a BP! We have to blindly support whatever garbage is spewed out! How else will Marvel know I like the character???

It's really ridiculous how these writers come to these kind of conclusions about characters without ever reading previous runs. If they had bothered to read anything prior to Coates, they would know that Shuri was educated, did become Black Panther and women were not marginalized.

But why let facts get in the way of a lousy story.

I mean there's no time for research, or learning about the characters deep lore and history or respecting the character even, not when The Message ™ needs to be told