T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2024

[MindofShadow]

IDK why yall keep giving xpac 2.0 the time of day.

And again, your mileage on what you like will vary but seems weird to complain that Marvel, the world outside your window, is taking a realistic approach. And didn't Priest treat Wakanda like a real place? Really trying to understand this.

This is the problem though.

"Realistic"... so realistic to a advanced super power is... the same problems that plague(d) the rest of Africa? Why... because said superpower is in Africa? Isn't that... low key disrespectful as hell?

Wakanda's problems should be beyond the problems of colonized Africa.

Priest did treat Wakanda as a real place but the problems were what... dealing with refugees at its borders (which is something all advanced nations deal with) and... standardish "take the throne" stuff from enemies?

He had T'challa crash economies because Wakanda has that power to do so. He had warships planted in places they shouldn't have been because Wakanda had the power to do so.

I don't mind certain problems in Wakanda but its baseline should be, "warrior never colonized uber technologically advanced nation ran by a warrior king blessed by a God" THAT is Wakanda's baseline and the problems within Wakanda need to start with that premise. If the author is too creatively bankrupt to make a story around that premise, then they are not qualified to write the character.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

IDK why yall keep giving xpac 2.0 the time of day.

Its hurts me that you call me that bro. Still love tho.

[Redjack]

Incredibly well written character on film. Who has gained a lot of popularity since. Well done Coogler.


*sorry Ekie*

nah.

BP was a solid movie that tapped into the longings of the Black American subculture while affording white fans the chance to root for a cool character who wasn't calling them all racists. It was a cultural event more than a film.

Killmonger was written as a self-obsessed serial killer and mass murderer with dreams of racial dictatorship.

There was no nuance there. Zero. Never confuse an actor's ability to transform a 1D character into a 3D one with that character being well-written. A good actor can elevate weak material.

In comics, Coates run capitalized on his real-world social relevance and popularity beyond the medium but gave a novice fiction writer free reign to filter his political views through a super-hero character at the expense of the core structures of that hero's universe. It was a marketing move, essentially. Writing comics is something seasoned fiction writers have a hard time wrapping their heads around. Screenwriters and novelists often pull their hair out when they try.

It's one of the most complicated and complex forms to attempt and they gave the premiere black super-hero to a person who'd never written any kind of fiction at all. On-the-job training at the expense of the character's status and sales.

If a white writer had written precisely the same things the same way, folks would have been picketing Marvel with torches.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Look Klaue i know you like to ride or die for Coates and the MCU and all, but this is just getting silly. Your trying so hard to defend Coates Nonsense or defend the poor treatment the MCU has given to T'Challa and it just ain't working man. No one will think less of you if your not always trying to defend the ishtty treatment

Yall going overboard means that one must go to extreme lengths just for you to recognize how overboard you're going.

Only a couple people complained about T'Challa in 2018. And it was more just Shuri being OP in intelligence. I was the critical one in terms of just disappointment in his final action scene. However, T'Challa was viewed very favorable. MBJ thinking Killmonger can challenge Thanos is a MBJ issue. Not a knock on T'Challa.

And in regards to Coates...i do dislike the fact really smart people just not seeing the gems and the good within it. But hey art is subjective. I never said Hill has to be Coates exactly. Just take some of the strong points and put his own spin on it.

You guys are Coates sensitive. So just substitute another writers name and you'll get what Im asking for is not that crazy.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

nah.

BP was a solid movie that tapped into the longing of the Black American subculture while affording white fans the chance to root for a cool character who wasn't calling them all racists. it was a cultural event more than a film.

Killmonger was written as a self-obsessed serial killer and mass murderer with dreams of racial dictatorship.

There was no nuance there. Zero.

Coates run capitalized on Coates' social relevance and popularity behind the medium but gave a novice fiction writer free reign to filter his political views through a super-hero character at the expense of the core structures of that hero's universe. If. white writer had done precisely the same thing folks would have been picketing Marvel with torches.

Heavily disagree. Killmonger doesnt achieve the popularity he has if that was the case.

Killmonger was the perfect example of writing/emphasizing the child of a manchild. Truly trapped in his trauma and yet living out his dreams. Especially when you parallel the actions of him, W'Kabi and Okoye throughout the movie.

Again maybe thats just your overall view of the character. At least judging by the animated series. What you described fits there so I get it.


Again no disrespect, but that last comment on Coates is laughable.

[Redjack]

Heavily disagree. Killmonger doesnt achieve the popularity he has if that was the case.

Killmonger was the perfect example of writing/emphasizing the child of a manchild. Truly trapped in his trauma and yet living out his dreams. Especially when you parallel the actions of him, W'Kabi and Okoye throughout the movie.

Again maybe thats just your overall view of the character. At least judging by the animated series. What you described fits there so I get it.


Again no disrespect, but that last comment on Coates is laughable.

Movie Killmonger's popularity is both oversold and the result of a great many folks living in their feelings of grievance at the American system and its treatment of us. He is, essentially, a super-powered Donald Trump for Black MAGA (yeah, I know there's no such thing). Also, ladies love Michael B. Jordan. That's 90% of his popularity, right there. Good actor with charisma set on 10+ playing a 1-note villain to the best of his ability. That's performance, not writing.

So... Mark Waid putting black women in rape camps in an African utopia where the king looked the other way and the princess shrugged her shoulders? That would have gone over easy as cake. Sure, it would.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Movie Killmonger's popularity is both oversold and the result of a great many folks living in their feelings of grievance at the American system and its treatment of us. He is, essentially, a super-powered Donald Trump for Black MAGA (yeah, I know there's no such thing). Also, ladies love Michael B. Jordan. That's 90% of his popularity, right there. Good actor with charisma set on 10+ playing a 1-note villain to the best of his ability. That's performance, not writing.

So... Mark Waid putting black women in rape camps in an African utopia where the king looked the other way and the princess shrugged her shoulders? That would have gone over easy as cake. Sure, it would.

Dont tell me you were in these Marvel meetings talking like that bro. You must not be plugged into what people are saying and thinking. Cause if anything there are far more people saying MBJ acting is holding back just how great that character is well drawn out.

Animated Killmonger is very one note and kinda forgettable (not saying thats you, just saying execution). So maybe you just saw surface when it came to the film as well.

And yall must have been paralyzed by Coates audacity to include that in his book. Cause its something yall just havent gotten over or just stopped reading there.

Truth is Coates mistake is that maybe We Were Eight Years in Power seemed like as much required reading as previous Black Panther comics. He took a very bold swing out of the gates and people werent ready for it. In fact I think if he could do it over again he would have scrapped that bit. Overall it would be better served as a graphic novel and not a per issue deal.

[Ekie]

Killmonger is a piece of crap who deserved a much slower and uglier death than the merciful one granted by T'Challa.

Man was a menace to black women in that movie

[Redjack]

Dont tell me you were in these Marvel meetings talking like that bro.

I am exactly the same person in every venue. I have no poker face and I don't filter.

You must not be plugged into what people are saying and thinking. Cause if anything there are far more people saying MBJ acting is holding back just how great that character is well drawn out.

Well, opinions differ. Mine is what I said.

Animated Killmonger is very one note and kinda forgettable (not saying thats you, just saying execution). So maybe you just saw surface when it came to the film as well.

LOL. Animated Killmonger was written for 8-14 year olds. Obviously, I prefer my version.

And yall must have been paralyzed by Coates audacity to include that in his book. Cause it's something yall just havent gotten over or just stopped reading there.

Not at all. He isn't a good fiction writer. He's a solid essayist and has many political views with which I agree. But he, almost single-handedly, destroyed everything built by all the writers since Priest and we see the real-world result. Sales drop. Cancellations. Fade to the BG when he was made into a top-tier character after decades of relative obscurity.

Truth is Coates mistake is that maybe We Were Eight Years in Power seemed like as much required reading as previous Black Panther comics. He took a very bold swing out of the gates and people weren't ready for it. In fact I think if he could do it over again he would have scrapped that bit. Overall it would be better served as a graphic novel and not a per issue deal.

His mistake was the common newbie writer mistake, i.e. thinking what super-hero comics need is more "realism."

nonsense.

[Ekie]

Incredibly well written character on film. Who has gained a lot of popularity since. Well done Coogler.


*sorry Ekie*

Sure!
Same can't be said of the titular character though

[Ekie]

Incredibly well written character on film. Who has gained a lot of popularity since. Well done Coogler.


*sorry Ekie*

Its hurts me that you call me that bro. Still love tho.

I always appreciate the discorse. I think the end goal for the character is the same despite never agreeing on the path

[Overhazard]

Man was a menace to black women in that movie

He was a hotep with a gym membership, a red haired stepchild with a chip on his shoulder. He had a girlfriend who he shot in the head and killed, but too many fans were caught up in their lust fueled fantasies to see it. We never even learned her name.

[Marvell2100]

@Redjack

Different subject: Did/do you have any ideas for Mr. Terrific over at DC? The brother could really use some help.

[Ekie]

Movie Killmonger's popularity is both oversold and the result of a great many folks living in their feelings of grievance at the American system and its treatment of us. He is, essentially, a super-powered Donald Trump for Black MAGA (yeah, I know there's no such thing). Also, ladies love Michael B. Jordan. That's 90% of his popularity, right there. Good actor with charisma set on 10+ playing a 1-note villain to the best of his ability. That's performance, not writing.

So... Mark Waid putting black women in rape camps in an African utopia where the king looked the other way and the princess shrugged her shoulders? That would have gone over easy as cake. Sure, it would.

Killmonger as Donald Trump-esk figure in Panther something I thought and wanted for the character ever since that movie created a fanbase for him. It's funny your say that.

I've also said BP1 was a better moment than movie forever but interacting with Klaue and 'Twitter ppl' has made me wonder if at that time the moment was more important than having a better movie. Dune 1 is closer to what i wanted to see in terms of writing for Blackpanther than what Coogler produced and aside from Ryan over-writing for his friend MBJ and female supporting cast and under writing Blackpanther himself i think he did a perfect job with the moment ('1rst' big budget sci-fi all black cast).

Now that the moment is over and that novelty will continue to fade, its time for someone who can produce a great (not good) Blackpanther movie and firmly establish the character in pop culture. Ryan aint that guy imo and Wakanda forever cemented that

[Frontier]

@Redjack

Different subject: Did/do you have any ideas for Mr. Terrific over at DC? The brother could really use some help.

I loved his Mr. Terrific episode in Justice League Action .