Did the Krakoa era unwittin give humans a legit excuse to hate and fear mutants?

[Marvell2100]

That part. I’m fine with refocusing on the Dream, but for it to actually land Marvel needs to put some actual effort into having things improve between mutants and the average human. Of course the franchise will always need it’s bigoted villains, but taking some time to show that living as a mutant in the MU isn’t an instant death trap would go a long way towards re-centering on co-existence.

That's really important. Marvel's business model for mutants is to say that they are hated and feared. No matter that there are other super-powered individuals, aliens or what have you, there has to be a distinction between mutants and everyone else. Where once the X-Men and other super-heroes had a pretty cordial if not friendly co-existence and the X-Men actually had human friends, that began to change. The suspicion and hatred towards mutant grew to the point that you rarely saw humans who were actually supportive of them. Then we started getting the extinction era of events that a previous poster documented so well. This all proved very successful as a business model.

The question becomes, do we as readers want to return to the premise of mutants and human working to create a world where they can not only co-exist but actually be friends? There was a time when this was actually happening. Or, we do want mutants isolated from the world but thriving(Krakoa or something similar)? Or can Marvel do both?

[Zelena]

[COLOR="#000080"]That's really important. Marvel's business model for mutants is to say that they are hated and feared. No matter that there are other super-powered individuals, aliens or what have you, there has to be a distinction between mutants and everyone else.

Except the super-heroes who had an official status like the Fantastic or the Avengers, all the super-heroes whose adventures I have read were feared: the Swamp Thing, the Ghost Rider, even the sympathetic Spider-man (once celebrated, once booed)… It has always been a roller coaster of feelings. The super-beings are strange, often masked, always secret and their powers are scary.

The difference is probably the label: the mutants could be brought together. In the past it didn’t matter though: they were so different, between the “good mutants” and the “evil mutants”…

[Marvell2100]

Except the super-heroes who had an official status like the Fantastic or the Avengers, all the super-heroes whose adventures I have read were feared: the Swamp Thing, the Ghost Rider, even the sympathetic Spider-man (once celebrated, once booed)… It has always been a roller coaster of feelings. The super-beings are strange, often masked, always secret and their powers are scary.

The difference is probably the label: the mutants could be brought together. In the past it didn’t matter though: they were so different, between the “good mutants” and the “evil mutants”…

However, those heroes were feared as individuals. Moreover, they weren't hated for being born different. Mutants were an entire race that were feared and hated.

[Catlady in training]

Isn't it generally presumed that mutants will probably eventually replace the other humans in the Marvel Universe?

Just look at how some white people in the real world are freaking out about the possibility of being replaced in the future. Or the freaking out about more people identifying as LGBTQ+ now. It would probably be much worse if there were people who had powers that give them actual advantages, even without any supervillains with powers.

[LordUltimus]

Isn't it generally presumed that mutants will probably eventually replace the other humans in the Marvel Universe?

Just look at how some white people in the real world are freaking out about the possibility of being replaced in the future. Or the freaking out about more people identifying as LGBTQ+ now. It would probably be much worse if there were people who had powers that give them actual advantages, even without any supervillains with powers.

Problem is, mutants replacing humans is supposed to be objective fact, so that's kind of buying into that sort of "race replacement theory" and treating it like it's a good thing, when in actuality it's not a thing at all and no one wants it.

[DragonsChi]

I think the Krakoa era would give anyone (Mutant, Human, Alien, ect) a reason to worry about the X-Men and mutants in general.

The Krakoa era introduce a morally lost island, filled with individuals who had little to no regard life, who were also willing to use any power they had (born with or obtained) to manipulate and/or horded over anyone they thought opposed them( former friends, allies, and of course enemies).

We can all sit back and pretend that wasn't the case and make any excuses that we like but ....the Krakoa era is the era where the X-Men became the bad guys. At the very least a very large version of the Suicide Squad.

[Riv86672]

Sigh, that is supposed to say "unwittingly".

I said legit excuse. Holding the drugs over everyone's head. The colonization of Mars. The gates in the major cities. The no humans on Krakoa rule*. Messing with Mister Fantastic's mind etc.

*That is broken a lot.

^^^Short answer: Yes.

[Alan2099]

Isn't it generally presumed that mutants will probably eventually replace the other humans in the Marvel Universe?

Yet anytime we see stories set in the future, where it's MC2, 2099, original Guardians of the Galaxy, or whatever, mutants have never outpaced the rest of the human race, in fact, in a lot of marvel futures, it seems there are even less mutants.

[Grunty]

Yet anytime we see stories set in the future, where it's MC2, 2099, original Guardians of the Galaxy, or whatever, mutants have never outpaced the rest of the human race, in fact, in a lot of marvel futures, it seems there are even less mutants.

Likely because they don't want a Marvel wide future to be entirely about mutants, since it comes at the expense of the other kinds of super humans their comics are known for.

Also perhaps it makes it more difficult to write the usual marvel super hero stories but merely "IN THE FUTURE!!!" when they have to consider a world in which basicly everyone or at least a single to double digit percentage of the world's popular is a super human to some degree, which makes the usual super heros much less relevant or special.

In order for the super heros to be special demi-god figures, it seems the general population needs to remain average normal people. So mutants can never be normal.

Though ironicaly, the manga My Hero Acadamia offers a look into what a mutant majority future would look like and how super heros as a concept would still function within.

Overall, it seems the biggest hurdle for mutants will always be the "everything and the kitchen sink" approach that Marvel has taken for the world of their super heros. Where basicly every kind of source from technology to magic is present and even became mixed together.

[marhawkman]

Problem is, mutants replacing humans is supposed to be objective fact, so that's kind of buying into that sort of "race replacement theory" and treating it like it's a good thing, when in actuality it's not a thing at all and no one wants it.

Mutants being "better" than baseline Humans enh, sure, but is it the ONLY next step?

[Rift]

I think the Krakoa era would give anyone (Mutant, Human, Alien, ect) a reason to worry about the X-Men and mutants in general.

The Krakoa era introduce a morally lost island, filled with individuals who had little to no regard life, who were also willing to use any power they had (born with or obtained) to manipulate and/or horded over anyone they thought opposed them( former friends, allies, and of course enemies).

We can all sit back and pretend that wasn't the case and make any excuses that we like but ....the Krakoa era is the era where the X-Men became the bad guys. At the very least a very large version of the Suicide Squad.

Note that the villains were largely kept away from society and put under rules that prevented them from hurting humans; in fact, most of the villains who turned back went after the mutants first. Also, many of the villains/antagonists were genuinely redeemed and became good while on Krakoa.

The X-Men were not the bad guys for being defensive and being pragmatic in a game that was already rigged against them. It was always made clear that Krakoa was necessary for survival because everything else failed. Yeah, the books were setting up that they had a lot of hubris. There were cracks in the foundation and some might go too far. But overall they were good people and many still went out of their way to help humans, to the point where respecting human life was one of their core tenants.

[Zoks]

Considering how we in the real life want nations to disarm their nuclear arsenals, and already set up a system to try to prevent it from spreading, a mutant Nation-state filled with weapons of mass destruction would automatically be on most nations "fear" list. Sure, the Mutants promised to not hurt regular humans, but who is enforcing that, other than their own good will? Is it a good reason to "hate" mutants? No, but hatred generally spawns out of fear and ignorance of the unknown, and Mutants being the potential threat they are would create new reasons for people to hate them. If Krakoa fails there is no way any human government would tolerate the creation of a new Mutant state if they could reasonably interfere.

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

No. I do not think so.

Especially not after Judgment Day, when everyone was shown the measure how they are in life.

This should have altered their perspective on Mutants.

[DragonsChi]

Note that the villains were largely kept away from society and put under rules that prevented them from hurting humans; in fact, most of the villains who turned back went after the mutants first. Also, many of the villains/antagonists were genuinely redeemed and became good while on Krakoa.

The X-Men were not the bad guys for being defensive and being pragmatic in a game that was already rigged against them. It was always made clear that Krakoa was necessary for survival because everything else failed. Yeah, the books were setting up that they had a lot of hubris. There were cracks in the foundation and some might go too far. But overall they were good people and many still went out of their way to help humans, to the point where respecting human life was one of their core tenants.

Who was talking about the x-villain's? Most of the main X-Men now have a body bag count that would make some of their villains blush at this point. Thanks to Krakoa era.

As to your other point... and not to go on the extreme here...but Hitler believed that genocide was necessary for the survival of his people too. A HERO(s) knows that the road may be hard and that they may not survive the journey but they still do it anyway. That is what makes them heroes. The fact they get up again and again while NEVER taking the easy way out or becoming what they are fighting against.

[lefthanded]

Sigh, that is supposed to say "unwittingly".

I said legit excuse. Holding the drugs over everyone's head. The colonization of Mars. The gates in the major cities. The no humans on Krakoa rule*. Messing with Mister Fantastic's mind etc.

*That is broken a lot.

In the beginning yes - Hickman showed how political groups would react, how humans would react to Mutants not going to Krakoa, etc. Up until the Mars colonization Hellfire Gala, yes, humans had legit reasons to be afraid or at least anxious about a new nation with a lot of power.

Heck, I would be legit terrified if Xavier did a simple telepathic worldwide broadcast announcing Krakoa, as that would be a pretty blatant intrusion.

But ... Krakoan era from then on gave no legit attention to human-mutant relationships, and was more about Mutant-Sinister relationships. Sure, there were tacit statements about how "Orchis' public opinion is up", but by and large nothing that happened is nothing different from non-Krakoan era relationships.

For example, the things that happened during the AXE event would be received by random human the same way as Kitty Pryde phasing a giant space bullet through the earth. They are both just unbelievable things that happen involving mutants, and aren't anything specific about Krakoa doing things to humans.