Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[MindofShadow]

Lolol I'll give you that. I'll have to reread all of Hudlin's run.

I'll save you the trouble and tell you it never happened.

Hudlin's run was barely in Wakanda and when it was, T'challa never, ever, ever, ever brought in outside help. The closest that came was asking Tony what the heck Killmonger was doing in Niganda.

The point still remains I never explicitly said Hudlin brought other heroes to Wakanda to save it. I acknowledged that Coates did. I did say that Coates picked up on the plot thread of brining in other heroes period. The fact remains that every issue after the marriage could be seen as Hudlin bringing in another her to share panel space and taking room away from T'Challa. That happened.

Hudlin never brought in other heroes to help Wakanda.

And, the Storm sharing panel space post marriage actually wasn't special. Outside of the initial Who is the Black Panther arc, which was initially supposed to be non-canon... Hudlin routinely brought in other heroes into the Black Panther book. Hudlin sought to make T'challa important by putting him with other heroes constantly.

Wild Kingdom was the X-men.
House of M were x-men and Black Bolt.
Bad Mutha had Luke Cage, Shang, Blade, Voodoo, Monica
Bride of the Panther obviously had Storm but it also involved a litany of other heroes. Wolverine, other x-men, the bachelor party group, the bacherlette party group, the wedding had the whole MU
Civil War obviously involved the honeymoon tour... meaning Inhumans, Doom, Namor, and then the actual CW so Iron Man, Cap, Rhodey, and the whole resistance.
Four the Hard Way and Little Green Men involved the New Fantastic Four.
Back to Africa had Monica and Stark

Hudlin's only contained arcs were WitBP and Deadliest of the Species (which had Storm).


Priest had numerous guest appearances. Liss had numerous guest appearances.

The difference is, T'challa still drove the books. Despite surrounded by the who-who's of Marvel, he was the star of the book. He made the decision, he punched the bad guys. That isn't true with Coates Season 2. That story was about Storm.

[Marvell2100]

And I'm sure most are happy with T'Challa. But again, even those who are might also want the right to vote for their leadership and have a say in government. That's the aspect of it you are overlooking. What rationale person wouldn't?

Then make the challenge if you're unhappy with your current ruler. Train, acquire MGH and then challenge for leadership.

And again, elected officials are supposed to serve the will of the people but in reality that doesn't always work out that way.

[XPac]

Then make the challenge if you're unhappy with your current ruler. Train, acquire MGH and then challenge for leadership.

And again, elected officials are supposed to serve the will of the people but in reality that doesn't always work out that way.

The fact that this is the only legit way to change leadership is to defeat a meta and consume a poisonous herb is exactly why voting probably sounds good by comparrison.

[Cville]

Yes, exactly this. Thanks a bunch. Clearly those are some heavy implications. And they open the door Coates' story. It's just so funny that Storm is around in this issue too helping T'Challa to protect all of the citizens of Wakanda. And I still maintain that this story has many of the elements required for the proper foundation of s2. I understand that most don't like it. But to dismiss it as completely meaningless in the grand scheme is a bit delusional.

No she doesn't. She spends most of her time with the deviant child and talking to Tchalla. The only time she uses her powers from anything besides basic flight is when she gets mind swapped.

[MindofShadow]

No she doesn't. She spends most of her time with the deviant child and talking to Tchalla. The only time she uses her powers from anything besides basic flight is when she gets mind swapped.

I think the only time Storm ever actively defended Wakanda in a Black Panther book was See Wakanda and Die.

Unless we count Doom War as a BP book... I prefer to think of it as as a Doom book lol.

I could be wrong here, shooting off the hip I bit. But I don't think I am.

[Cville]

The fact that this is the only legit way to change leadership is to defeat a meta and consume a poisonous herb is exactly why voting probably sounds good by comparrison.

It wouldn't to a warrior oriented people who believe their leader is the protector of the nation. Mr. Worf challenge Galron during a meeting and nobody compained. Lol

[Marvell2100]

The fact that this is the only legit way to change leadership is to defeat a meta and consume a poisonous herb is exactly why voting probably sounds good by comparrison.

Again, the herb is no longer involved and if it is, we don't know that it's poisonous to all Wakandans. And elections can always run the risk of voting in an idiot.

[XPac]

It wouldn't to a warrior oriented people who believe their leader is the protector of the nation. Mr. Worf challenge Galron during a meeting and nobody compained. Lol

To some maybe. But again we still get revolts and coups, the last of which led to legit reform. Point being a system that might have made sense in the past might not make as much sense now. Systems of government have evolved overtime for a reason.

[XPac]

Again, the herb is no longer involved and if it is, we don't know that it's poisonous to all Wakandans. And elections can always run the risk of voting in an idiot.

Until we see another sucessfull challenge, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger. That's all we have to go on since haven't gotten a sucessfull challenge since.

And as for voting ... can you honestly say our would prefer it if you didn't have the right to vote? Because again, no government is perfect but that doesn't mean people don't want or should have a say.

[Cville]

There is a page missing, but this is Hickmans origin story.

[Marvell2100]

Until we see another sucessfull challenge, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger. That's all we have to go on since haven't gotten a sucessfull challenge since.

And as for voting ... can you honestly say our would prefer it if you didn't have the right to vote? Because again, no government is perfect but that doesn't mean people don't want or should have a say.

You're right, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger and it was only poisonous to him.

I didn't say I didn't want the right to vote. We're talking about Wakanda and what the majority want their gov't to be like.

[MindofShadow]

Until we see another sucessfull challenge, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger. That's all we have to go on since haven't gotten a sucessfull challenge since.

.

Naw.

Shuri's taken it (obviously).

Peter took it and was fine.

S'yan recommended Storm become Black Panther (so she would have had to take the herb). So unless we think Uncle S'yan wanted Storm in a coma....

And apparently Zawadi took the herb waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day but I can't find it on panel yet. Must have been in an encyclopedia or something so *shrugs*

So far, Killmonger seems to be the outlier.

[BBeeryan]

I'll save you the trouble and tell you it never happened.

Hudlin's run was barely in Wakanda and when it was, T'challa never, ever, ever, ever brought in outside help. The closest that came was asking Tony what the heck Killmonger was doing in Niganda.

Hudlin never brought in other heroes to help Wakanda.

And, the Storm sharing panel space post marriage actually wasn't special. Outside of the initial Who is the Black Panther arc, which was initially supposed to be non-canon... Hudlin routinely brought in other heroes into the Black Panther book. Hudlin sought to make T'challa important by putting him with other heroes constantly.

Wild Kingdom was the X-men.
House of M were x-men and Black Bolt.
Bad Mutha had Luke Cage, Shang, Blade, Voodoo, Monica
Bride of the Panther obviously had Storm but it also involved a litany of other heroes. Wolverine, other x-men, the bachelor party group, the bacherlette party group, the wedding had the whole MU
Civil War obviously involved the honeymoon tour... meaning Inhumans, Doom, Namor, and then the actual CW so Iron Man, Cap, Rhodey, and the whole resistance.
Four the Hard Way and Little Green Men involved the New Fantastic Four.
Back to Africa had Monica and Stark

Hudlin's only contained arcs were WitBP and Deadliest of the Species (which had Storm).


Priest had numerous guest appearances. Liss had numerous guest appearances.

The difference is, T'challa still drove the books. Despite surrounded by the who-who's of Marvel, he was the star of the book. He made the decision, he punched the bad guys. That isn't true with Coates Season 2. That story was about Storm.

I'll give you all of this even though you essentially arguing semantics.I'm talking about different plot points or story beats that show up across multiple runs. No Hudlin, didn't have other heroes protecting Wakanda. Ok cool. That doesn't change the idea that there were multiple heroes that showed up and took away valuable panel space from T'Challa. That happened. Hudlin had a bunch of guest appearances. This happened. I'm pointing out that Coates followed that same formula despite his preparation techniques. You're arguing against that main point without offering up proof to debunk it entirely. You do realize that you're not disproving my argument, right?

No she doesn't. She spends most of her time with the deviant child and talking to Tchalla. The only time she uses her powers from anything besides basic flight is when she gets mind swapped.

Storm still now has history of helping T'Challa solve problems involving an indigenous population of creatures that predate humans, right? Is anyone gonna be objective (other than Mike Murdock) and admit to these things being put to paper long before Coates got his hands on the mythos?

[XPac]

Naw.

Shuri's taken it (obviously).

Peter took it and was fine.

S'yan recommended Storm become Black Panther (so she would have had to take the herb). So unless we think Uncle S'yan wanted Storm in a coma....

And apparently Zawadi took the herb waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day but I can't find it on panel yet. Must have been in an encyclopedia or something so *shrugs*

So far, Killmonger seems to be the outlier.

Shuri is a part of the Royal family, who are supposed to be immune. And part of Peters power is actually a degree of resistance to being poisoned.

I don't disagree that the issue is nuddy, but nothing has directly retconned what Priest wrote on panel yet.

But even if for arguments sake the herb isn't poisonous he went into a coma after taking it. If someone poisoned him independent of the herb the end result is still the same ... the contest is rigged.
.which again isn't necessarily a bad thing. Again, the MCU shows us that.

[MindofShadow]

I'll give you all of this even though you essentially arguing semantics.I'm talking about different plot points or story beats that show up across multiple runs. No Hudlin, didn't have other heroes protecting Wakanda. Ok cool. That doesn't change the idea that there were multiple heroes that showed up and took away valuable panel space from T'Challa. That happened. Hudlin had a bunch of guest appearances. This happened. I'm pointing out that Coates followed that same formula despite his preparation techniques. You're arguing against that main point without offering up proof to debunk it entirely. You do realize that you're not disproving my argument, right?

Everytime I disprove an argument, you move an argument. Everytime I ask for scans, you can't produce them.
and I addressed the "multiple heroes" thing

The difference is, T'challa still drove the books. Despite surrounded by the who-who's of Marvel, he was the star of the book. He made the decision, he punched the bad guys. That isn't true with Coates Season 2. That story was about Storm.

Storm still now has history of helping T'Challa solve problems involving an indigenous population of creatures that predate humans, right? Is anyone gonna be objective (other than Mike Murdock) and admit to these things being put to paper long before Coates got his hands on the mythos?

How did Storm help solve the problem during Sturm Und Drang? Be specific. Being around =/= helping T'challa solve problems. I don't remember her being invited to the super secret meeting between Kings (and Ross). She didn't help stop Klaw. She didn't adopt the child. She wasn't in Lemuria with Ross.

I think she babysitted for a second?