We are arguing semantics here, I'm not opposed to Rachel being an Omega Level Mutant but to say she's been cited as one on panel is erroneous. And while I'm willing to turn a blind eye to that scene in Hickmans run where it's implied she's actually not one, for people to try and cite that as evidence when it specifically singles Wolverine, Storm and Rachel as not Omega Mutates is ingeniune too.
Niether is the statement of the handbook thing, she's never been cited as an Omega level mutant in the Marvel Handbooks either. Even in the 198 files Omega mutants like Franklin and Elixir were stated to be Omega but Rachel was not. There isn't a citation not yet anyway.
The list on panel for "Omega Level Mutant" would be:
Jean Grey & Iceman - X-Men Forever 3 and numerous times after.
Franklin Richards - 198 Files and in one of the Fantastic Four arcs by Hickman.
Elixir - New Mutants v2 & 198 Files
Mr. M - X-Men 198 series and 198 Files
Vulcan - Beyonds Omega Deadly Genesis and as Omega Level in RAFOTSE
Stryfe - Uncanny X-Force v2 17
Professor Xavier - As an Omega Level Mutant in the synopsis of Deadly Genesis
Phoenix Emma Frost - As Omega Level Mutant in AvX Avengers Academy
Legion - Omega Level Mutant in Second Coming and his ongoing.
Mathew Malloy - Uncanny X-Men Bendis
Kid Omega - He was cited as Omega Level Mutant recently in WATXM. I think before that was just Omega Level Telepath.
Hope Summers - Marvel Handbook Phoenix Handbook IIRC as Omega Level Mutant.
Last edited by ExodusCloak; 09-25-2014 at 03:18 AM.
Yep, she is an Omega Class contact according to Nimrod classification.
Maybe she is an Omega-Level Telepath, but please give a reference where she has been explicitly stated to be an Omega-Level Telepath.
Well it's clear here with the "Class-One contacts" who are first identified by their level then by their species designation, this Omega Class seems to be adapted as a threat level (like the Omega Level Threat) and not as a mutant power (like the Omega Level Mutant classification)(maybe gonna move Rachel from "Omega Level Mutants" to "Omega Level Threats" on wikia..).
Well, he say he is on par with her, not that he classify himself as such. It's a little difference but it is one anyway. Not sure if we should count Nimrod as Omega himself.
I'm not sure of what you are saying Daithi, but if I don't mistake here, you're saying that because he knew she was a mutant, he did not mentioned it, but we have to count it as an Omega Class Mutant ? I can't say I agree: We know she is a mutant, we know she is an Omega Class. Well we can count her as an Omega Level Mutant or Threat, it seems reasonable, but she isn't an Omega Level Mutant as much as we could say for other clearly described as such. In the same way, if we agree on the fact that Nimrod classification is a threat classif (what it seems to be), we know the Spider Queen is a mutant, and she is an Omega Level Threat, but we don't count her as an Omega Level Mutant. Same if there was an Omega Level Mutates category, we would not count Hulk, Absorbing Man and the Spider Queen as Omega Level Mutates although they are mutants and Omega Level Threats. I think I will have to check that Nimrod classification soon.
Oh come on... That change nothing, he specify from the beginning (with the Class-One) that his classification can be applied to mutants and enhanced beings. There is no proof that a non-mutant could not be an Omega. You could say there is no proof that he could be, that's almost true, but if the Class-One can be used for both types of superhumans, why not the
Thanks, that's exactly how I see those things.
This issue is very unclear, for any of them. Iceman could be the Elemental, and be used to take down the Omega Level Mutates (Rachel and Storm), or he is the OLM and used to take down everyone (including Rachel and Storm), or he is an OLM used to take down everyone (specifically the OLM Rachel and Storm). Or even : Nobody is an OLM here according to Supergiant (she use the plural maybe as a generality), and she takes down everyone without targeting anybody. The "minor members with mental acuity" could be other telepaths like Martha or who knows who (members, plural here again)
The thing is, Iceman, Rachel and Storm are three mutants designated as Omegas or potential Omegas, and the three appears to be targeted after that statement.
In other words, with the lack of accuracy of this issue (regarding how people debate on it), better to use it carefully.
Well, there is some others. The whole list is in the references here: http://marvel.wikia.com/Mutant_Power...Classification (and the page of each characters listed in the categories).
And again, in case they would not have seen it:
"I admit I haven't read a lot of things involving Mikhail Rasputin, Jubilee and Dazzler, but feel free to give the references where they're stated as [Omegas]."
"Which Handbooks, official wiki and biography lists her as an Omega-Level Telepath ?"
Last edited by Undoniel; 09-25-2014 at 04:38 AM.
Sorry it's pure theory on your part that he's talking about the school in general as opposed to the three people shown on the next panel. Bear in mind he actually says "some minor members with mental acuity" so he is not just talking about Rachel. He excludes them and focus on the Omega level mutates (Storm, Iceman and Rachel).
Last edited by Daithi; 09-25-2014 at 06:13 AM.
Of course she's talking about the school in general, why else would he include "some minor members with mental acuity" and in that scene she's scanning the school grounds for threats. And be honest here, she's listing out the characters at the scene. That is the context of the scene. You may infer that he's talking about Rachel and Storm aswell as Iceman but then there'd be no reason to list them out withWolverine earlier on. Storm and Rachel just so happen to be standing next to the "megamorph" Iceman at the time.
She specially says omega level mutates, then a panel is shown with Storm, Rachel and Iceman then he focuses on Iceman. There would be no reason to show the other two or specially state omega level mutates. He would have just used the singular to specify Iceman.
He never specified Rachel at all but "members" which the school has plenty off. Hell Hisako's power is psionic in nature isn't?
The fact is he specifies members and you think it includes Rachel but there's no proof of that. Whereas the very next panel after omega level includes Rachel.
Last edited by Daithi; 09-25-2014 at 06:45 AM.
Actually, there is a reason for showing the other two, the entire point of that scene was to take control of the most powerful member and wipe the others out. Hence them needing to show him attacking his teamates. The reason why she used the word mutates because she's talking in generally about those mutants that are a threat.
She didn't say psionic, Storms powers are also psionic. She said mental acuity, she was refering to the telepaths at the school, but more correctly (logically) the writer was referring to the telepaths that were shown. That is the most logical conclusion. But if you want to include Armor in that then logic again would mean she's refering to Armor and Rachel.
No the very next panel shows her only going after Iceman. You are inferring that she went after Storm and Rachel too, but she only chose Iceman. And even says whos she's talking about...Iceman
Last edited by ExodusCloak; 09-25-2014 at 07:03 AM.
No she said "mental acuity" which could mean anybody with mental powers.
No please stop putting words into my mouth. She specifies omega level mutates (note the plural). She's already discounted Storm in the list with Logan. She never mentioned Rachel so the omega level mutates (again note the plural!) are Rachel and Iceman.
The fact she goes after Iceman isn't relevant to what I'm saying.
Nope, think about what you are saying. Both Iceman and Storms powers are psionic. If she were talking about "mental acuity" as any kinetic user then she would not have to say "Elemental". She'd have covered Storm. She's specifically talking about those with mental powers e.g. telepaths; the ones at the scene.
So you've completely refuted your own argument with what you say about Storm. You've just argued that being drawn in that panel doesn't automatically mean she was talking about them as you just said she discounted Storm. Well, she also discounted Rachel given that she mentioned "mutants with mental acuity".No please stop putting words into my mouth. She specifies omega level mutates (note the plural). She's already discounted Storm in the list with Logan. She never mentioned Rachel so the omega level mutates are Rachel and Iceman.
Last edited by ExodusCloak; 09-25-2014 at 07:20 AM.
Totally agree with this. However, someone tweet Hickman/Breevort and it was confirmed Supergiant was not talking about Storm.
I don't think it matters wheter Supergiant was talking about Storm or not, even though it was confirmed she was not, as Storm has been classified a couple of time as being omega-level potential.
Perfect, which correlates with the context of that particular scene. Do you have the tweet of Hickmans/Brevoorts response? Was Supergiant only talking about Iceman?
Found one anyway. No mention of Rachel.
http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com...-that-storm-is
I mean I'm all for them being confirmed at a later stage, but that scene definitely did not state either.
Last edited by ExodusCloak; 09-25-2014 at 07:43 AM.
At this point, I really don't want/need omega level storm.....it doesn't really do anything for me. Besides, she's already "up there" power wise". I wouldn't mind crazy feats though :3
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Which makes sense. Again, I was never saying those two shouldn't be confirmed as Omega Level Mutants somewhere down the line. I was just saying it's wrong to say that particular scene says they are because it clearly doesn't. It's like saying the grass is blue, and insisting it's blue when it's actually green. That's not how the scene went.
Personally I think Rachel is an Omega. She can create black holes and has nearly fully mastered her telekinetic abilities to sub-atomic levels. Her telepathic powers and skills have grown considerably and Xavier has marveled at how powerful and skilled she has become (partly through his training in space). And she has shown that should she die can can transcend her mortality and exist solely as a non-corporeal being (Mother Askani) that can bend time and space.
But really, what does it necessarily matter? A few years down the line someone is going to use a new Greek term to describe and even more dangerous mutant than Mallory and these classifications will become moot. While nice to show the potential and unlimited power of characters, ultimately they will all be jobbed by the writers in order to show a different characters powers or abilities. Rachel will be blocked out by Quentin, but then she'll tear him down if provoked. Storm will be able control elements in space but then lose this ability. And others will continue to miraculously jump up (AOA Jean unlocking a new level for Psylocke's telepathy, Emma becoming an omega telepath, etc.) and the list will grow and grow.
I'd rather see good writing and provocative stories than 'who is more powerful this week'.