Bird of Prey! The Sam Wilson Appreciation

[Marvell2100]

I'm hoping Marvel doesn't go to crazy with added weapons and armor. I like the fact that Sam has to be the best under his own natural power to succeed. Cap's Shield is a given to be Captain America but outside of that I really don't want to much more than what we already seen from him. Which has been so far.....

Weapons/Gear:
Flight harness
Wings(used for shielding occasionally)
Cables
Light Weight armor of some kind


To me this is the perfect opportunity for Sam to show why he has always been capable of playing with the big dogs in the MU. Giving him additional gear or even powers doesn't really prove that point.

However, putting that fact aside character like Batman, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Black Widow(who arguably may not count) and many others do what they do with the bare minimum most of the time. There is no reason why Sam shouldn't be able to do the same.

The suit doesn't have to give him enhanced strength, it just has to give him more durability. It doesn't have to be an Iron Man suit but he shouldn't go down from the first shot from an optic blast or repulsor beam. Steve did have the shield which is a great defensive weapon and it took the brunt of nearly every blast fired at him. If Sam doesn't have the shield, he's going to need some modest protection.

[Trident]

I see what your saying. However, his current suit may be enough. I mean it was fire resistant enough to allow Falcon to keep standing

granted I would like to attribute some of that to sheer will power.

Either way Sam isn't a slouch. The guy did beat Electro once as well so I'm sure he could handle some of the X-Men depending on who's present.

[JudicatorPrime]

The Electro fight is exactly what I don't want to see when Sam faces the X-men.

I never really saw Electro as a well-trained combatant. He was always a blowhard that leaned on shooting e-bolts instead of actually using the environment around him to do the job for him. Or doesn't anyone else notice that the ground in the fight scene with the Falcon was wet, and the bar overhang that Falc grabbed onto was metal...all excellect conductors for electricity. Electro, if he had any clue at all, could have sent a few thousand volts through Sam's *** without moving. But of course, the hero has to win. I want a more credible fight when he faces the X-Men. I won't mind if he loses, but it will bother me if they cheat the readers with an implausible fight.

By the way, you guys reference Spider Man quite a bit. Most street level heroes aren't in Spidey's class in terms of superhuman strength, superhuman speed, superhuman reflexes and reaction time, etc., not to mention the old Spider sense. I could easily see Spidey going a few rounds with any of the X-men teams. I have a hard time seeing the Falcon doing that. Whoever the writer is, he has to make me believe it. I'm willing to meet him/her half way.

[Marvell2100]

The Electro fight is exactly what I don't want to see when Sam faces the X-men.

I never really saw Electro as a well-trained combatant. He was always a blowhard that leaned on shooting e-bolts instead of actually using the environment around him to do the job for him. Or doesn't anyone else notice that the ground in the fight scene with the Falcon was wet, and the bar overhang that Falc grabbed onto was metal...all excellect conductors for electricity. Electro, if he had any clue at all, could have sent a few thousand volts through Sam's *** without moving. But of course, the hero has to win. I want a more credible fight when he faces the X-Men. I won't mind if he loses, but it will bother me if they cheat the readers with an implausible fight.

By the way, you guys reference Spider Man quite a bit. Most street level heroes aren't in Spidey's class in terms of superhuman strength, superhuman speed, superhuman reflexes and reaction time, etc., not to mention the old Spider sense. I could easily see Spidey going a few rounds with any of the X-men teams. I have a hard time seeing the Falcon doing that. Whoever the writer is, he has to make me believe it. I'm willing to meet him/her half way.

Spidey has the edge when it comes to reflexes, speed and agility but Sam is a more strategic fighter and would fight it differently than Spidey would. But Sam would also have Redwing acting as another set of eyes which would be similar to having a Spidey sense. I don't think anyone here expects Sam to win a fight against the X-men but it's plausible that he could hold his own for a while.

[Psycwave]

Oh I didn't even necessarily want him to not fight them due to combat related stuff but for the theme of it all. For the past few years it's kind of been Cap and The Avengers VS The X-men. I was hoping that Sam would take a different approach to how he acts with them and starts rebuilding some bridges. I get that we've got to do the whole hero vs hero thing but it'll be nice if it doesn't last too long. Heck, even when Sam went to visit them in Legacy he wasn't all that confrontational. Plus, it ruins my chances for Cap'n Falcon/Psylocke team-up written by Remender.

[Marvell2100]

Oh I didn't even necessarily want him to not fight them due to combat related stuff but for the theme of it all. For the past few years it's kind of been Cap and The Avengers VS The X-men. I was hoping that Sam would take a different approach to how he acts with them and starts rebuilding some bridges. I get that we've got to do the whole hero vs hero thing but it'll be nice if it doesn't last too long. Heck, even when Sam went to visit them in Legacy he wasn't all that confrontational. Plus, it ruins my chances for Cap'n Falcon/Psylocke team-up written by Remender.

Didn't you know? It's a written rule that anyone wearing any version of a Captain America uniform must fight the X-Men and vice versa. It's in their contracts.

[Shaunyc]

I still miss the hard light wings, I think that tech could be enhanced to get Sam what he needs durability wise.

[Trident]

The Electro fight is exactly what I don't want to see when Sam faces the X-men.

I never really saw Electro as a well-trained combatant. He was always a blowhard that leaned on shooting e-bolts instead of actually using the environment around him to do the job for him. Or doesn't anyone else notice that the ground in the fight scene with the Falcon was wet, and the bar overhang that Falc grabbed onto was metal...all excellect conductors for electricity. Electro, if he had any clue at all, could have sent a few thousand volts through Sam's *** without moving. But of course, the hero has to win. I want a more credible fight when he faces the X-Men. I won't mind if he loses, but it will bother me if they cheat the readers with an implausible fight.

Might be pulling at a few straws there....

No Electro isn't the brightest light bulb in the box but he had a good showing against Sam, enough for it not to be a joke fight. Like I said before most of the X-Men rely heavily on their powers and that is a very good weakness that Sam can exploit since Sam has to rely heavily on his brain to win matches. I think it is fully with in Sam's ability to combine his smarts and his agility to pull a win or at the very least hold his own in a fight, again depending on who is present. Depending on who Sam is up against plays a big role in wether he wins or looses. If it's one vs one thats whole other story as well. Which by the sound of it, its' not going to be.

By the way, you guys reference Spider Man quite a bit. Most street level heroes aren't in Spidey's class in terms of superhuman strength, superhuman speed, superhuman reflexes and reaction time, etc., not to mention the old Spider sense. I could easily see Spidey going a few rounds with any of the X-men teams. I have a hard time seeing the Falcon doing that. Whoever the writer is, he has to make me believe it. I'm willing to meet him/her half way.

I don't think anyone was comparing Sam to Spidey so not sure why that is a thing. But even still power alone doesn't win matches and the applies in the real world as well. The face off hasn't happen just yet so it's too early to tell. For all we know Sam could have the Mighty team with him and all he does is call out orders.

[JudicatorPrime]

For all we know Sam could have the Mighty team with and all he does is call out orders.

I definitely hope that they leave Sam on Mighty throughout the entire Captain America arc. The group could use the spotlight. I'm not sure if Monica would be asked to step back as field operations leader, but if she had to step aside for anyone, I could see her doing it for Sam.

Not sure if I want to see another Avengers team vs. the X-men, though. That has been done to death.

[Punisher007]

No, Monica needs to stay the leader.

[Psycwave]

I think Ewing said there were going to be some slight conflict with Monica and Sam with folks automatically looking towards him for leadership now that he's Cap.

Edit: Not so much conflict but it might be one

In the longer term -- if you pick any member, they're going to have their opinions of Sam's new role. As I was writing this, it occurred to me that the general public probably see Sam as team leader now, in the field -- he's Captain America, right? So how does that make Monica feel? Especially since a threat is coming up from behind that only she's had serious experience with? Can she trust the team to follow her orders in the crunch instead of the man in the stars and stripes?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=54323

[Trident]

I definitely hope that they leave Sam on Mighty throughout the entire Captain America arc. The group could use the spotlight. I'm not sure if Monica would be asked to step back as field operations leader, but if she had to step aside for anyone, I could see her doing it for Sam.

Not sure if I want to see another Avengers team vs. the X-men, though. That has been done to death.

I agree. I want Sam to be in this book more than any other team book. I also think that a properly written Sam wouldn't have him pushing anyone out of way for leadership. I also don't see why it has to be one or the other. Both Monica and Sam can guide the team to success.

I also agree that there are other characters that I would much rather Sam face than the X-Men. More villains than anyone else but I would also like to see Sam face off against some of the elite fighters in the MU.

Like I said in a previous post....Sam is very much a blank slate. Regardless of how much flack he has gotten in the past there is no actual "marker" for where Sam stands as a fighter in the MU yet. All we really know is that the guy keeps up with a Super Solider on a regular bases. Does that mean he is in the same fighter/skill bracket? No, but hopefully we will find out.

[JudicatorPrime]

I also think that a properly written Sam wouldn't have him pushing anyone out of way for leadership.

Quite a few members of the MA, including Luke and the Power kid see the Falcon as a "Captain America and...." Sure, it's not hard to dispel that perception and write him into a leadership role, but I think most have already embraced Monica. She's been the one leading them in battle and training the younger members. If Sam does become the leader, they have to make it organic and not just because he happens to be the one in the Captain America suit.

I also don't see why it has to be one or the other. Both Monica and Sam can guide the team to success.

With a roster this small it would be a disaster to have more than one established leader in the field. Effective chain of command typically relies on one voice, although there may be various counsel in the tent that help arrive at the single message. I'm fine with leaving Monica in charge. The MA never established the office of Captain America as the de jure leader, even if this is an Avengers team. Sam should earn the leadership reins and not have it handed to him just because he's Captain America. That kind of thinking would make for bad precedent. I mean what if Marvel had decided to give the office of Captain America back to USAgent? Would we still be ok with him automatically becoming the leader of MA over Monica? (Absolutely not!)

As for Sam's fighting prowess, it really is sad that we have a hero that's been around for almost 50 years and no one really knows where to rank him pugilistically speaking. I suspect that like with Blue Marvel we are going to spend the first several issues finding out just exactly what Sam can do. There will be a few eyebrow raising battles, I imagine.

[Marvell2100]

Even more interesting is how are they going to broach the subject of Sam's leadership capabilities or lack thereof? I'm sure he learned many things from Steve but does Sam have that natural ability? I don't want it to be that he becomes leader simply because he's now Captain America. It makes it seem as if he couldn't be a leader any other way.

[Trident]

Quite a few members of the MA, including Luke and the Power kid see the Falscon as a "Captain America and...." Sure, it's not hard to dispel that perception and write him into a leadership role, but I think most have already embraced Monica. She's been the one leading them in battle and training the younger members. If Sam does become the leader, they have to make it organic and not just because he happens to be the one in the Captain America suit.

I'm pretty sure "organic" is all that Ewing has in mind with doing with the character. No reason to believe that he wouldn't at this point. But in a way your post kinda shows the wall around everyone's thinking. People automatically discredit Sam because of what they don't know or haven't already seen. The same way Ewing present that line in Mighty with Cage and Powerman. Just because people perceive something to be the case doesn't make it so.

Sound like a broken record here but.....this another case of something we have never seen due to Sam's lack of exposure. How do we really know he can't rally the troops behind him with ease? How do we know he can not inspire and lead people to victory? From what little we have seen of Sam, with other heroes that is, we know for certain that he is a good mentor and gives wise counsel, which are signs of decent leader at the very least. I would keep an open mind about the things to come and before anyone says "Sam can't do that" ask yourself why can't he and how does it contradict anything that came before.

With a roster this small it would be a disaster to have more than one established leader in the field. Effective chain of command typically relies on one voice, although there may be various counsel in the tent that help arrive at the single message. I'm fine with leaving Monica in charge. The MA never established the office of Captain America as the de jure leader, even if this is an Avengers team. Sam should earn the leadership reins and not have it handed to him just because he's Captain America. That kind of thinking would make for bad precedent. I mean what if Marvel had decided to give the office of Captain America back to USAgent? Would we still be ok with him automatically becoming the leader of MA over Monica? (Absolutely not!)

As for Sam's fighting prowess, it really is sad that we have a hero that's been around for almost 50 years and no one really knows where to rank him pugilistically speaking. I suspect that like with Blue Marvel we are going to spend the first several issues finding out just exactly what Sam can do. There will be a few eyebrow raising battles, I imagine.

I disagree. In sports teams and even the army their are a few leaders on the field at one time. If the leaders are united in a view and common goal then there is no stepping on each other toes or a battle of who to listen to at what time. Ewing also made it clear that no one is going to hand Sam anything and from what we seen of Sam he isn't the type to expect that sort of deal anyway.

I agree with the last part. But that does come from the lack of crossovers that Sam has been given over the years. All the things we are interested in finding out more about would be in some sense answered if he had more guest/crossover appearances. Things like skill, leadership capability and so on would all be clear. However, in a way this is a huge advantage for Sam and the current set of writers who are using him. Because in a lot of ways they get to write the definitive Sam Wilson book on who he is and what he can do moving forward.

Even more interesting is how are they going to broach the subject of Sam's leadership capabilities or lack thereof? I'm sure he learned many things from Steve but does Sam have that natural ability? I don't want it to be that he becomes leader simply because he's now Captain America. It makes it seem as if he couldn't be a leader any other way.

Similar in the sense that all the bat kids lead their respective super groups because they are a bat kid. I see what you mean.

I do think Ewing will handle the transition really well. I just wish this stuff was coming out now so we can see how it plays out already.