LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Fokken]

I'm always amazed the beautiful Clay Mann .... draws THE HOTTEST men of any artist at Marvel.

A man of his stature and physique ought to know how to make a well built man -- being one himself.

[Tiamatty]

From the "Women of Marvel: APPRECIATION THREAD", a snippet from Pryde & Wisdom in 1996 (by Claremont), with lots of lesiban subtext between Kitty and Karma. Anyone here read it?

I read it. It was pretty good, actually, though the fact that I love both Kitty and Karma probably had a bit to do with that. Though I disagree with that panel being subtext. While Karma still hadn't been actually called gay on-panel, her appearance in X-Force a few years earlier had made it obvious that she was gay. That panel makes it pretty explicit that she has a thing for Kitty. While the words may not come out and say it, it definitely goes beyond subtext and becomes simply text.

[klinton]

A man of his stature and physique ought to know how to make a well built man -- being one himself.

Jesus...you weren't kidding. I...I had no idea. I think I'm in love. <3

[Marvell2100]

Jesus...you weren't kidding. I...I had no idea. I think I'm in love. <3

Down klinton! Down!

[klinton]

Down klinton! Down!

NO! BACK THE F*CK OFF! HE'S MINE!

[Marvell2100]

NO! BACK THE F*CK OFF! HE'S MINE!

Haha! I don't think anyone is brave enough to go through you to get him.

[Tiamatty]

Jesus...you weren't kidding. I...I had no idea. I think I'm in love. <3

I'm straight, but I'm comfortable enough to admit that is a fine-looking man.

[klinton]

Haha! I don't think anyone is brave enough to go through you to get him.

I seriously, no word of a lie, spent a good twenty minutes googling Captain Dreamy there after learning this. I've kind of always assumed (clearly, incorrectly...) that comics folk were all variations on the likes of Adam Hughes.

I have to start doing cons. Have.To.

[Stormcrow]

Jesus...you weren't kidding. I...I had no idea. I think I'm in love. <3

I actually met him at a con last year, and the best part is he has a TWIN - Seth Mann - who usually works with him. Yes, there are two. Dwell on that.

[klinton]

I actually met him at a con last year, and the best part is he has a TWIN - Seth Mann - who usually works with him. Yes, there are two. Dwell on that.

Okay, for real: that's pretty much the hottest thing I've ever read. Ever.

...and they make comics.

How am I just learning about these guys now? How is this not the topic of every thread?

[Wiccan615]

I actually met him at a con last year, and the best part is he has a TWIN - Seth Mann - who usually works with him. Yes, there are two. Dwell on that.

I call dibs on Seth

[Spider-Chan]

From the "Women of Marvel: APPRECIATION THREAD", a snippet from Pryde & Wisdom in 1996 (by Claremont), with lots of lesiban subtext between Kitty and Karma. Anyone here read it?

Everything by Claremont has lesbian subtext, even when there are no women around.

QUESTION: which character would you like to see as openly LGBT in the MU films?

Mmmm... considering how much possibilities the character haves to appear? I think Phyla-Vell. She was a member of GotG and she's related to Mar-Vell, who has a relation with Carol Danvers, assuming they're making a Captain Marvel movie. It would be a great way to align the Earth heroes with the more cosmic ones. I imagine Phyla arriving Earth searching for Mar-Vell, because BIG MENACE THAT WILL DESTROY THE UNIVERSE, but she only finds Carol, who tells The Avengers, team-up, fight evil, win, and the movie ends with Phyla making out with Carol.

(Oddly enough, all this just made me realize that this two have never met.)

While I understand why X-men: Days of Future Past (2014) used Quicksilver (to get in before the Avengers films), anyone a little sad it wasn't Northstar? The story wouldn't have changed at all (and Logan knowing him would make sense - Alpha Flight). I'm surprised Bryan Singer (and openly gay director), who rightly makes the X-films a metaphor for gay rights, has still not had any openly LGBT characters (and therefore the MU films remain without ever having an openly LGBT character)

Of course, the thing about including a LGBT+ character in a big blockbuster movie is that the studio wouldn't risk having a R rating. The MPAA seems to think that the fact that a character is gay is enough to put a R rating to a movie, because THINK OF THE CHILDREN DAMMIT!!! I always wondered how did Scott Pilgrim got away with a PG-13. I think that with Marvel being backed-up by Disney, there's a chance we might see a openly queer character in the MCU.

[Dermie]

In Carol's case she wasn't the leader, not really. She made a choice, Tony over-rode it. She said no, Tony made it a yes.

I get what you're saying--BUT the fact remains that she WAS team leader. The two of them had some conflicts over it at times (since Tony is a control freak, and has pulled stunts like that with various other leaders too), but Carol was the acknowledged team leader. The fact that Tony undermined her authority on occasion (he didn't do it ALL the time) doesn't take the title away from her.

Carol had Tony, Spectrum has Luke. I'm not asking the moon in 10 years (and numerous comics) to see a female leader of an Avengers team where the buck stops with her (no asterix, "well buts" or any other co-leading technicalities).

No, you're not (although I would point out there is a BIG difference between the Carol/Tony situation and the Monica/Luke situation).

But part of the problem is that there are so many Avengers leaders--both male and female. Wasp, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch and Spectrum have all served as chairman in the capacity that you are describing before. Carol Danvers has also served as Avengers leader (with Tony sometimes interfering). All 5 of those women are currently active Avengers--and so are Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hawkeye, Luke Cage, etc, who have ALSO all served as Avengers leader. On top of that, we also have currently active Avengers who have served as leaders in other groups (Havok, Rogue, Wolverine, Cannonball, Hyperion, etc) so that is even more leaders in the mix.

With so many leaders around at once, it is somewhat inevitable that you'll end up with some co-leader situations and/or chain of command conflicts. We've seen it with two male leaders at the same time before, so I don't think it should necessarily be interpreted as anything sexist if it happens with a male/female co-leader dynamic.

The list isn't huge, sadly. We had Allan Heinberg (writer of Young Avengers), Phil Jimenez (artist for New X-men under Morrison and Astonishing X-men under Ellis) and Eisner award winner Jim McCann (writer of Hawkeye and Mockingbird, Widowmaker and Hawkeye: Blindspot). I'm sure there are more, but those are the only three I know who work regularly (and significantly) for Marvel.

And McCann really hasn't done much for Marvel since BLINDSPOT--he's been doing more independent and creator-owner stuff, I believe.

There is a gay artist who has been getting more work at Marvel lately though--Jacopo Camagni. He did the recent LONGSHOT SAVES THE MARVEL UNIVERSE mini, as well as the last DEADPOOL ANNUAL.

I'm always amazed the beautiful Clay Mann isn't bisexual, the man draws THE HOTTEST men of any artist at Marvel.


This isn't the best example of Mann's hot guys, but I just LOVE Asmus' comment - and this comic was criminally underrated!

Great image--thanks for sharing. And yeah, I definitely miss Asmus/Mann's GAMBIT series.

Everything by Claremont has lesbian subtext, even when there are no women around.

*LOL* Thank you--I needed that!

[Kieran_Frost]

I WANT CLAY MANN TO DRAW HULKLING!!!!!

I would be 110% fine if he was shirtless throughout the whole movie

Better yet he could play Namor and be in only pants the whole time = WIN!!!

Jesus...you weren't kidding. I...I had no idea. I think I'm in love. <3

I love his art, he's possibly my favourite artist at Marvel (the fact he's easy on the eyes is just a delightful bonus).

Down klinton! Down!

NO! BACK THE F*CK OFF! HE'S MINE!

Haha! I don't think anyone is brave enough to go through you to get him.

I actually met him at a con last year, and the best part is he has a TWIN - Seth Mann - who usually works with him. Yes, there are two. Dwell on that.

I call dibs on Seth

HILARIOUS interchange! I loved it!

I read it. It was pretty good, actually, though the fact that I love both Kitty and Karma probably had a bit to do with that. Though I disagree with that panel being subtext. While Karma still hadn't been actually called gay on-panel, her appearance in X-Force a few years earlier had made it obvious that she was gay. That panel makes it pretty explicit that she has a thing for Kitty. While the words may not come out and say it, it definitely goes beyond subtext and becomes simply text.

It's such a shame Karma doesn't get more stories, hopefully that will change.

Everything by Claremont has lesbian subtext, even when there are no women around.

I spat out my tea all over my laptop when I saw this...

Mmmm... considering how much possibilities the character haves to appear? I think Phyla-Vell. She was a member of GotG and she's related to Mar-Vell, who has a relation with Carol Danvers, assuming they're making a Captain Marvel movie. It would be a great way to align the Earth heroes with the more cosmic ones. I imagine Phyla arriving Earth searching for Mar-Vell, because BIG MENACE THAT WILL DESTROY THE UNIVERSE, but she only finds Carol, who tells The Avengers, team-up, fight evil, win, and the movie ends with Phyla making out with Carol.

(Oddly enough, all this just made me realize that this two have never met.)

Phyla would be awesome! Phyla or Northstar (part of me feels it should be Northstar, so he can be BOTH the first openly LGBT superhero in mainstream comics AND mainstream cinema).

Of course, the thing about including a LGBT+ character in a big blockbuster movie is that the studio wouldn't risk having a R rating. The MPAA seems to think that the fact that a character is gay is enough to put a R rating to a movie, because THINK OF THE CHILDREN DAMMIT!!! I always wondered how did Scott Pilgrim got away with a PG-13. I think that with Marvel being backed-up by Disney, there's a chance we might see a openly queer character in the MCU.

Tell me about it, we don't have a Young Avengers cartoon because they are sooooo terrified how people will react if we dare portray teenagers in healthy, loving relationships (that happen to be with the same gender).

[Kieran_Frost]

No, you're not (although I would point out there is a BIG difference between the Carol/Tony situation and the Monica/Luke situation).
But part of the problem is that there are so many Avengers leaders--both male and female. Wasp, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch and Spectrum have all served as chairman in the capacity that you are describing before. Carol Danvers has also served as Avengers leader (with Tony sometimes interfering). All 5 of those women are currently active Avengers--and so are Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hawkeye, Luke Cage, etc, who have ALSO all served as Avengers leader. On top of that, we also have currently active Avengers who have served as leaders in other groups (Havok, Rogue, Wolverine, Cannonball, Hyperion, etc) so that is even more leaders in the mix.
With so many leaders around at once, it is somewhat inevitable that you'll end up with some co-leader situations and/or chain of command conflicts. We've seen it with two male leaders at the same time before, so I don't think it should necessarily be interpreted as anything sexist if it happens with a male/female co-leader dynamic.

It's not that we always need a female leader, and it's not about sexism, but it's been 10 years since a female has led a team outright. That's SAD! That is a huge shame, and I hope the next writer after Hickman corrects this over-sight. It's not about sexism, each case (in of itself) is fine. Monica's situation is fine, Carol... less fine, but whatever. But put ALL together = MAJOR problem. The same is true of the Avengers complete absence of LGBT official members. Each writer = fine, it happens. But taken as a whole it's a massive failing, and more should be done to repair that. The same is true of female leaders (Natasha has now been overlooked as the leader of Secret Avengers FOUR TIMES!!! (four different writing teams). Come on, that's a massive failing. Marvel keep wanting to make Carol the "lead Marvel female" yet never put her as the leader outright. And every year this situation doesn't change, the more problematic it will become (in my eyes).

And McCann really hasn't done much for Marvel since BLINDSPOT--he's been doing more independent and creator-owner stuff, I believe.

Marvel's loss.

There is a gay artist who has been getting more work at Marvel lately though--Jacopo Camagni. He did the recent LONGSHOT SAVES THE MARVEL UNIVERSE mini, as well as the last DEADPOOL ANNUAL.

Thank-you for this, very cool work, and always good to hear of more LGBT representation behind the scenes.

[here is some art by Jacopo Camagni]

Great image--thanks for sharing. And yeah, I definitely miss Asmus/Mann's GAMBIT series.

Agreed. Especially the Tombstone arc, but it was all very fun, very well researched and the Club With No Name (as a Thunderbolts lover)... that made me smile!