The Minority Report! Diversity In The MU.

[Mr MajestiK]

Yeah, I started out with the DCNU Birds of Prey. Very well written and great art. I trade wait the series now because I can't afford to get too many titles.

If Fearless had started with a core of just Misty, Brunhilde and Hippolyta with Annabelle as supporting character, then that would have been something to build on. They just had so many characters running around, you never knew who was coming or going.

Hippolyta was just one of the characters that I would have loved to have learned more about but alas, the books lack of focus and Bunn's seeming lack of character awareness sealed the books doom.

Al Ewing would probably have been a better fit as he obviously has a solid grap on characterization regardless of what genre he's writing.

[Mr MajestiK]

Sure, but let's face it...the people who were complaining the loudest about lack of A-Listers weren't going to pick up the comic anyway. I agree with the other commentors who say that the initial premise for Fearless was sound, but the execution fell short. I want more diversity in mainstream comics, but I still want the comic to be good.

Agreed.

There was so much that could have been achieved with that book especially in relation to raising the profiles of most of the 616's underused female protagonists.

[SilverZeal]

It would be great to see her doing something like Mighty Avengers as I feel her style would suit that book immensely.

And speaking of the Mighty Avengers, I wouldn't mind seeing a book exploring Adam and Kevin Brashear's adventures over the years before Kevin got trapped in the Neutral Zone.





In fact, a book exploring Adam's current relationship with his kids would be pretty darn cool.

Welcome and thanks for the support.

I'm a sucker for Indiana Jones/pulp adventure type stories so a mini-series centred around Adam and Kevin would be pretty cool.

Agents of A.T.L.A.S. is another leftfield book that would be a blast to check out if Marvel ever decided to launch it again.

Agrd & cosignd!

Hek, BM probably has a history with AoA frm bk in d 60's or probably BM & Kevin had a team-up with dem in d 90's...a BM & d AoA team-up mini wud b superb.

[SilverZeal]

Black Tarantula!



Where are you?

Dat dude is supakool....he, Shroud & d electric anti-villain/supahero/ medical doctorafrican american dude frm Spidervrs(we/SZ 4get his name) shd form a team.

Black Tarantula!



Where are you?

Dat dude is supakool....he, Shroud & d electric anti-villain/supahero/ medical doctorafrican american dude frm Spidervrs(we/SZ 4get his name) shd form a team.

[Mr MajestiK]

Dat dude is supakool....he, Shroud & d electric anti-villain/supahero/ medical doctorafrican american dude frm Spidervrs(we/SZ 4get his name) shd form a team.



Dat dude is supakool....he, Shroud & d electric anti-villain/supahero/ medical doctorafrican american dude frm Spidervrs(we/SZ 4get his name) shd form a team.

Cardiac.

[skyvolt2000]

Prodigy being outed is a perfect example. It wasn't (possibly) what the original writer intended (we don't know); but it's a well written, justified evolution of a character. And doesn't contradict comic canon, nor felt forced or out of place.

I've just read that issue in question. It didn't bother me as much as I thought it would in fact it had me wanting to see more. I wanted to see him tell his parents or Surge or see him interact with more bisexual heroes.
In other words I wanted to see it open more doors and from the educator side of me-a teaching tool.

Greg Pak has been angling to write a "Storm" series for years and now that he's got the gig, he's making good on his promises.

As long as you know who is not mentioned in it. I'll be fine. This is Pal's chance to get both characters out of each other's shadow.

[skyvolt2000]

It's OK. The goal isn't to minimize complaints, the goal is to make money.

But we all have to remember a minority led book faces WAY MORE challenges than say Moon Knight, Punisher, Dial H or I Vampire.

If I see a minority lead book struggling-I always have to ask myself is that due to the creative team, budgets or hate for the character based on skin color or sexual preference. You got stores that will not sell a book because the owner or employee hates the character.They would rather lose money than sale the book.

Remember not every hater of minorities is some fanboy-a lot of those folks have jobs and who knows what they can do to screw over a minority lead book.

And this is what Marvel and DC needs to take into consideration and figure out someway to make sure those minority lead books get a fair shot.

Do you do a graphic novel? Do you do a double size issue every 2 months? Does Marvel take orders and ship the books themselves bypassing the comic book store?

Miles got help because of one person-Sara P. I know more folks who bought that book because of HER and stayed on after she left.

Miles Morales as Peter's sidekick? No thanks.

What about his foster son? Or Aunt May adopts Miles and you can get 2 series-one with Peter free to do whatever and Aunt May dealing with a teen Spiderman.

[Tiamatty]

I just read this interesting article about the identities of female characters. The fact that they tend to go through names a lot, that their names get used by lots of different characters, that a lot have just stopped bothering with codenames altogether, and that sort of thing.

[Kieran_Frost]

That's the key, right there, IMO. None of the Thunderbolts were 'A-listers,' and none of them had really had any sort of consistent characterization (since they'd been, in most cases, people to get punched by super-heroes, in previous appearances, with 'Screaming Mimi' perhaps being the most egregious case, and the most startlingly transformed).

What made that series work, is that, instead of *saying* that they were 'hitting the ground running,' they actually *did* hit the ground running. We didn't get 'how the team got together' until the first annual. We didn't get people sitting around choosing members until, well, pretty much *never.*

The story moved, which seems to be anathema to the current writing style of "let's sit around a table and have a lively debate, and, *six issues into our run,* we'll have a fight, probably with each other, instead of with a villain..." Somehow, using a technique apparently lost to today's writers, the first years of Thunderbolts had character development happening *at the same time* as action and plot advancement. The action didn't have to grind to a halt for a thrilling round table discussion for half an issue whenever Moonstone and Songbird were on different sides of an ethical dilemma (because, generally, they always were!). No spine-tingling scenes of characters sitting around discussing who was suitable for membership (thanks for that, Justice League, very exciting! Not.). :/

Agreed. A comic should START with the team together, THEN later tell how they formed. Like Bendis did with Dark Avengers, they start their mission issue #1; and through flash-backs across the first arc we see the team form BUT we get a driving story at the same time; with them united and fighting as a team.

It's funny that a lot of people complain about the same characters being overexposed and used constantly. Then you get to a book like Fearless Defenders, which was trying to use characters that weren't appearing elsewhere, and a lot of people complained that they should have had MORE A-listers in it. I constantly heard comments (more so on other boards then here admittedly) about "where are the REAL supeheroes" or "call me when the actual GOOD characters show up" or "these characters suck" and so on. I really is a no-win situation for a writer, there will be complaints either way.

It shouldn't be all A-listers (obviously) but adding ONE major A-lister ina group of 7 is just a good idea. Why do you think Ewing started with Spiderman on the team? Why did Bendis have Wolverine in his New Avengers? A comic like Fearless Defenders NEEDED to have some "saftey blanket". Already an all female team is (sadly) a hard sell; add to the fact the lead was possibly LGBT (and the creative team isn't A-list, they were great, just not A-list)... you need to hedge your bets. If that makes sense?

I've just read that issue in question. It didn't bother me as much as I thought it would in fact it had me wanting to see more. I wanted to see him tell his parents or Surge or see him interact with more bisexual heroes.
In other words I wanted to see it open more doors and from the educator side of me-a teaching tool.

I REALLY want to see that inevitable Prodigy/Surge scene too. and Prodigy and Anole (surely Anole would wonder why David never came to him about this?)

I want more diversity in mainstream comics, but I still want the comic to be good.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!!!

[Mr MajestiK]

I just read this interesting article about the identities of female characters. The fact that they tend to go through names a lot, that their names get used by lots of different characters, that a lot have just stopped bothering with codenames altogether, and that sort of thing.

That made for interesting reading.

Thanks for posting the link.

[Tiamatty]

I did enjoy Fearless Defenders, but yeah, I can't say it was a particularly good book. What I will say is that #7, by Stephanie Hans, was one of the most gorgeous comics of the year. I love her work.

[Tiamatty]

That made for interesting reading.

Thanks for posting the link.

Someone posted it on the TVTropes forum. I figured it deserved to be posted here, too.

[Marvell2100]

I just read this interesting article about the identities of female characters. The fact that they tend to go through names a lot, that their names get used by lots of different characters, that a lot have just stopped bothering with codenames altogether, and that sort of thing.

Good article. The thing is that most of the heroes who's identities are publicly known aren't often referred to by their heroic names. And in most if not all of the team books, the heroes are friends who've known each other for some time so they're calling each other by their first name. Also, we have to take into account the long history of the characters. Cap's name is going to stick with Steve no matter what, the same as Iron Man for Tony Stark because they've been around for so long. There's a long history associated with that.

But it isn't just Female characters going on a first name basis only:

Luke Cage
Ben Grim
Simon Williams
Reed Richards
Bruce Banner
Hank Pym
Scott Summers
Hank McCoy

So it really isn't just a female issue.

[Tiamatty]

Good article. The thing is that most of the heroes who's identities are publicly known aren't often referred to by their heroic names. And in most if not all of the team books, the heroes are friends who've known each other for some time so they're calling each other by their first name. Also, we have to take into account the long history of the characters. Cap's name is going to stick with Steve no matter what, the same as Iron Man for Tony Stark because they've been around for so long. There's a long history associated with that.

But it isn't just Female characters going on a first name basis only:

Luke Cage
Ben Grim
Simon Williams
Reed Richards
Bruce Banner
Hank Pym
Scott Summers
Hank McCoy

So it really isn't just a female issue.

It does feel like female characters are more likely to go by their normal names, rather than bothering with codenames. Beyond that, it's a symptom of a large problem: Female characters just don't really seem to be able to get iconic identities the way the males do. They all either go through one name after another, or else they use a name that's already been around for a while, or they just slap "Woman" or "Girl" on a male character's name.

[Marvell2100]

It does feel like female characters are more likely to go by their normal names, rather than bothering with codenames. Beyond that, it's a symptom of a large problem: Female characters just don't really seem to be able to get iconic identities the way the males do. They all either go through one name after another, or else they use a name that's already been around for a while, or they just slap "Woman" or "Girl" on a male character's name.

I think it's more systematic of the fact that there weren't a lot of female heroes introduced early on in superhero comics. and that has been an ongoing problem. Looking back at the number of male characters introduced over the last 40-50 years to the number of female characters, it's probably quite staggering. And then look back at the instances where a female could have easily replaced the male, then you could have probably eliminated a lot of the name repetition that female characters suffer from.