Taking a Stand: I Support Janelle Asselin's critique of Teen Titans #1

[Lt Trouble]

I heard that!. I had no problem with the cover. Comic's are a form of fantasy, and shapely women is one of those fantasies. Just a few fans went too far with threats and intimidation.

I think the issue with that is.... that makes comics only a fantasy for certain people.

It's pretty rare that you see men in comics get a similar treatment (literally the only example I can think of is Noh-Varr in Young Avengers) - which is odd, because appealing to the fantasies of women has been part of why the Avengers movies have been so successful. Heck, I'm primarily attracted to women, and these kind of portrayals have nothing to do with my fantasies. I'd much rather see a woman that looks strong and powerful, who looks like she could kick butt in her uniform.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I don't think the right stand to take here is agreeing with her. I do agree with her, but people have a right to disagree.

The stand that that community should take is that even if you do disagree with her, calling for her rape or harassing her is unacceptable. There should be zero tolerance for that kind of behavior. Jonah is absolutely right to say that people who do things like that should not be welcome in our community.

[king mob]

I think the issue with that is.... that makes comics only a fantasy for certain people.

You mean superhero comics, not comics. Comics are a medium with dozens of different genres. Superhero comics in the US are aimed mainly at pubescent to adult males and there's your problem.

Now in the old forums there were dozens of threads making this point which had dozens of posters disagreeing but the fact is that American superhero comics are pitched for and created by, mainly adult men. Diversify the product and pitch it at everyone, rather than a small group and you'll possibly lose some of the pornofication of superhero comics. If writers and artists read and exposed themselves to more than genre fiction and of course, the sort of porn that forms the basis for some artists reference material, then you might have a more diverse superhero market.

It's extraordinary that in 2014 when the superhero genre could not be more popular, that superhero comics are fighting to stay afloat. There's a number of reasons for that, but the lack of diversity in creators and readers is part of it.

[The MunchKING]

So... Alright. What cover are we talking about? Google doesn't turn up anything especially egregious so I'm wondering if it is just the reactions are being overplayed or if I'm not seeing the right covers?

[Shawn Hopkins]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=52103

I'm just posting the link instead of the image. No need to fight that fight again.

[dupont2005]

Just one more example of why I can't read that garbage anymore.

[Lax]

You mean superhero comics, not comics. Comics are a medium with dozens of different genres. Superhero comics in the US are aimed mainly at pubescent to adult males and there's your problem.

Now in the old forums there were dozens of threads making this point which had dozens of posters disagreeing but the fact is that American superhero comics are pitched for and created by, mainly adult men. Diversify the product and pitch it at everyone, rather than a small group and you'll possibly lose some of the pornofication of superhero comics. If writers and artists read and exposed themselves to more than genre fiction and of course, the sort of porn that forms the basis for some artists reference material, then you might have a more diverse superhero market.

It's extraordinary that in 2014 when the superhero genre could not be more popular, that superhero comics are fighting to stay afloat. There's a number of reasons for that, but the lack of diversity in creators and readers is part of it.

And just like that Wonder Girl's bust-line is equated with pornography.


It is not.

[Lt Trouble]

You mean superhero comics, not comics. Comics are a medium with dozens of different genres. Superhero comics in the US are aimed mainly at pubescent to adult males and there's your problem.

Now in the old forums there were dozens of threads making this point which had dozens of posters disagreeing but the fact is that American superhero comics are pitched for and created by, mainly adult men. Diversify the product and pitch it at everyone, rather than a small group and you'll possibly lose some of the pornofication of superhero comics. If writers and artists read and exposed themselves to more than genre fiction and of course, the sort of porn that forms the basis for some artists reference material, then you might have a more diverse superhero market.

It's extraordinary that in 2014 when the superhero genre could not be more popular, that superhero comics are fighting to stay afloat. There's a number of reasons for that, but the lack of diversity in creators and readers is part of it.

I totally agree. And IIRC, that was a big part of Asselin's point - that Teen Titans should be a book aimed at teens, both boys and girls, but the way the cover art was drawn suggested that it was a sexy book for adult men.

I think Marvel's putting in a good try, with a number of female-lead titles that actually feel like real women/girls and have art that's not sleazy, with more PoC and LGBT characters, and I hope it's paying off for them.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I just reread the original article. It's baffling that this could be in any way controversial. It actually makes very salient and informed points, and even if you disagree with them they aren't presented in an especially offensive or confrontational way. If a dude had written it, the article would have gone completely unnoticed.

The only thing I think she's a bit off base on is in having too high a standard for perspective and realism in superhero art. Since the start superhero readers have allowed for a certain crudity and unreality when it comes to such things, as you can see from looking at a Kirby drawing ignoring the constraints of realism is where much of superhero art's energy comes from.

But she's right on about the depiction of Wondergirl, and the missed marketing opportunities that DC could have had if they'd made something to appeal to fans of the TV show instead of guys looking for a stroke book.

It's unfortunate that stuff is so much a part of the background radiation of superhero comics now. I was re-reading Young Avengers a few days ago and I remember coming to the part where Cassie Lang says she's 14. Then I remember thinking, "Wow, there sure are a lot of shots of this 14-year-old in sexy poses."

[davethebrave]

I also support Janelle Asselin's critique!

[king mob]

And just like that Wonder Girl's bust-line is equated with pornography.


It is not.

Then explain why a teenage girls breasts look like that unless they've had implants? This is one of the points Asselin was making about turning teenage girls into porn fantasies. We discussed this in the old board in one of the many sexism in comics threads.

[Lax]

Then explain why a teenage girls breasts look like that unless they've had implants? This is one of the points Asselin was making about turning teenage girls into porn fantasies. We discussed this in the old board in one of the many sexism in comics threads.

What's there to explain? Some girls are bustier than others and Wonder Girl is one of them.


She doesn't have a finger in her mouth while making a pouty face.

[Michael P]

What's there to explain? Some girls are bustier than others and Wonder Girl is one of them.

You realize that she's not a real person, and the artist didn't draw her from life, right? Her breasts are big because he chose to make them that way.

[king mob]

You realize that she's not a real person, and the artist didn't draw her from life, right? Her breasts are big because he chose to make them that way.

Indeed. He could have given her naturally large breasts, but he chose to give her porn star breasts. That's a choice.

[Michael P]

Indeed. He could have given her naturally large breasts, but he chose to give her porn star breasts. That's a choice.

It goes beyond that, though. The choice was made because big breasts = what straight men want to see. Wonder Girl, in this image, IS Kate Upton: A woman reduced to her sexual characteristics to satisfy the male gaze. THAT'S the problem.