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  1. #16
    Spectacular Member Spiderx3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Like Doctor Octopus crapping all over Peter's good name?

    I'll pass, thanks.
    Superior Spider-Man was a solid storyline evidenced by it's positive reception. Big Time was also a great arc with Peter getting his dream job, however I didn't like Horizon labs blowing up in Superior but it was never going to last, especially when it's Peter Parker.
    "A journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step."

    "With great power, comes great responsibility."

  2. #17
    Super Soldier THE DANGER965's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetah View Post
    Because people don't actually grow old and get married.
    Oh, I know that!
    When I speak of peter being relatable, in my mind I think of the teenage Peter parker, not the married one. That's just the way I find it being a teenager myself. Was kinda inside my own head there!

    But I certainly wasn't implying that older married men won't relate to Peter as much.
    I look around at us and you know what I see? Losers... I mean like, folks who have lost stuff. And we have, man, we have, all of us. Homes, and our families, normal lives. And you think life takes more than it gives, but not today. Today it's giving us something. It is giving us a chance.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member Aruran.'s Avatar
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    See if someone asks the question which one is better, Adult or Teenage Peter Parker, I would always go with the teenage one.

    If the argument was that Peter's a teenager, then obviously you keep him single cause it's stupid to have a kid get married cause that actually ages him.

    But when he's an adult, he's already old. So it doesn't really matter what you do, but it's a still point to say having Peter being an adult is ok, but him being married ages him to much.

    (Coming for someone who is still not a legal adult)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Maximum Carnage and Revenge of the Sinister Six come to mind.
    Maximum Carnage she asked Peter to take a break from being Spider-Man because Harry just died. Her exact quote from the story:

    "I know.. and your sense of responsibility is one of the qualities I admire most about you."

    "Take a break! Stop being Spider-Man for a week or two! We both need a chance to slow down... and chill out from the constant stress."

    What part of Revenge of the Sinister Six had her telling Peter to quit?

    Also in the clone saga and right after gathering of five when he'd supposedly "retired" and she didn't want to go back into the tights.

    ... I've been reading a bunch of 90s issues lately. Can you tell?
    So have I, and those are pretty much the only issues where the character comes remotely close to telling Peter to quit. Except it's not quit as much as take a break, or asking him why he needs to keep being Spider-Man.

    MJ also tends to come around in the end and actually ends up encouraging Peter. Much like she did during the Return of the Hobgoblin arc, where she helps Peter come out of the dumps at the end of the story. Or the Return of the Sin Eater arc where she tries to console him after he was jarred emotionally after seeing what he did to the Sin Eater.

    Funny that you liked JMS's run, because I felt that was when Peter and MJ were at their most boring, especially Peter, who suddenly felt ten years older.
    That's fine. But that in no way proves that they were.

    You've provided no proof that shows that they were boring. All you are doing is passing off your own personal opinion as proof regarding the lack of quality in a story, which means nothing since that opinion could be incredibly biased. I can't trust your opinion, because I have no way of knowing that you aren't deliberately exaggerating your own position or not doing so with no bias.

    It doesn't matter if you personally felt they were ten years older. You need to provide evidence that definitely shows that. Otherwise, an argument without proof can be dismissed without proof.

    Much of her fun, wild loving party self was revealed to just be a front she put up. Instead of having a high opinion and being very sure of herself it was revealed that deep down she was emotionally troubled and sad.
    Which in no way makes her a boring character. Maybe boring to you, personally, but hardly a definitive condemnation about her character as a whole. Again, personal opinions passed off as fact aren't real proof.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    I never really believed the whole 'relatable' justification.

    So people can't relate to a man who is married, despite that being something that frequently happens to actual people. But they can relate to a man who can stick to walls and has the proportional strength of a Spider, despite that being something that has never happened to anyone ever.

    Ooookay then.

    As for a reason to keep Peter single? Well, it's saved me a whole heap of money since OMD. And I'm happy for it to continue to do so. I'll stick to Miles and possibly Miggy.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    stone cold mathematical formula
    At the end of the day, the only cold hard facts that matter are the sales. And I don't think a single Peter Parker is detrimental to sales; seeing how Spidey comics are doing at the moment. Unless someone wants to do a "marriage to dollar gross chart" hah

  7. #22
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pako View Post
    At the end of the day, the only cold hard facts that matter are the sales. And I don't think a single Peter Parker is detrimental to sales; seeing how Spidey comics are doing at the moment. Unless someone wants to do a "marriage to dollar gross chart" hah
    I can just see it now.

    "So, by my calculation, the single Spider-man has made exactly one hundred twenty three dollars and fifteen cents more for Marvel."

    "Your numbers are off. You forgot to count his three panel cameo appearance in Brother Voodoo Team-up #12!"

    "During the marriage era, there were a few issues where he was written as still single by mistake. Did you count those?"

    "You can't count it like that! Spider-man wasn't married for the same amount of time he was single. You have to average there sales given an equal time frame."

    "When you were counting merchandising you forgot the Spider-man taffy snacks and the underoos that showed him fighting Hobgoblin!"

  8. #23
    All-New Member BottomsUp's Avatar
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    Comics featuring a married Peter Parker have to include Marry Jane in some respect (for the most part). Take her out of the equation and you can divert the resources elsewhere. You can dedicate them to Peter, himself, his supporting cast or just flesh out the action scenes a little better. I think the supporting cast in ASM has been better ever since OMD, tbh.
    Last edited by BottomsUp; 06-22-2014 at 06:24 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BottomsUp View Post
    Comics featuring a married Peter Parker have to include Marry Jane in some repect (for the most part). Take her out of the equation and you can divert the resources elsewhere. You can dedicate them to Peter, himself, his supporting cast or just flesh out the action scenes a little better. I think the supporting cast in ASM has been better ever since OMD, tbh.
    But MJ being his wife doesn't necessarily mean that she steals away attention from other characters within the supporting cast.

    If you think about it, she really wouldn't get any more screen time than Peter's regular love interest. Peter being with Carlie didn't mean that other members of the supporting cast were ignored. And during the marriage, Peter's marriage didn't cause other characters in the comics to be neglected as well.

    Yes, JMS did reduce the cast in ASM when he was on the title, but this was because he wanted to take a back to basics approach to the series by stripping away all the elements that had come to clog the series over the years. We have to remember that before JMS came on the title, Marvel tried a similar stunt to BND with the Byrne/ Mackie era, and increasing Peter's supporting cast and having a greater focus on the Bugle. But that didn't really cause the quality of the title to improve. And we also have to remember that while JMS reduced the supporting cast, people like Paul Jenkins and Peter David actually did bring a greater focus on the supporting cast of the books.

  10. #25

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    One post and a response were deleted. Let's discuss the topic, rather than the other guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMacQuarrie1 View Post
    But MJ being his wife doesn't necessarily mean that she steals away attention from other characters within the supporting cast.

    If you think about it, she really wouldn't get any more screen time than Peter's regular love interest. Peter being with Carlie didn't mean that other members of the supporting cast were ignored. And during the marriage, Peter's marriage didn't cause other characters in the comics to be neglected as well.

    Yes, JMS did reduce the cast in ASM when he was on the title, but this was because he wanted to take a back to basics approach to the series by stripping away all the elements that had come to clog the series over the years. We have to remember that before JMS came on the title, Marvel tried a similar stunt to BND with the Byrne/ Mackie era, and increasing Peter's supporting cast and having a greater focus on the Bugle. But that didn't really cause the quality of the title to improve. And we also have to remember that while JMS reduced the supporting cast, people like Paul Jenkins and Peter David actually did bring a greater focus on the supporting cast of the books.
    When she was Peter's wife, Mary Jane filled several roles in the supporting cast. She was his Peter's best friend, main confidante, roommate, the woman he loves and a member of his family. That did leave less room for other characters.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    When she was Peter's wife, Mary Jane filled several roles in the supporting cast. She was his Peter's best friend, main confidante, roommate, the woman he loves and a member of his family. That did leave less room for other characters.
    Not really. I've read a lot of those stories from that era, and MJ didn't take anything away from other characters.

    Just going from the Spider-Man: Cosmic Adventures trade paperback, there was still a lot of pages devoted to Jason Fireheart's takeover of the Daily Bugle and devoting it to improving Spider-Man's image in New York City and the subsequent fallout with JJJ and how he started his own magazine to compete, Robbie Robertson's arrest and the efforts to clear his name, which included a subplot Robbie's lawyer Cynthia Bernhammer and her relationship with Nick Katzenburg, Flash Thompson and his efforts to get back into boxing, as well as find love with the right girl, who ended up being Felicia Hardy, who herself was trying to get back at Peter for supposedly dumping her. In a lot of stories, she only showed up for a page or two, and in Web of Spider-Man #60, she didn't even show up at all. And that's just from one collection of stories from the 90's. So the notion that MJ took focus away from other characters just isn't true.

  12. #27
    Mighty Member Aruran.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Because Peter and Mary Jane are not compatible.
    But isn't that good for drama?

  13. #28
    Junior Member jgprime's Avatar
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    In no order whatsoever:

    1. Peter being single helps his character interact more with his supporting cast. When he's married a lot of time has to be devoted to his relationship with MJ.

    2. Peter being single cements his status as a young character. Yes, I know there's a lot of people who marry in their 20's but Peter being single supports his characterisation of being a young character in the Marvel Universe.

    3. Peter & MJ aren't compatible post-OMD. Making them go back together would take years and another hundred issues just to make it slightly believable. Their relationship, even as friends, has hit rock bottom. Peter's being Spider-Man prevented him from marrying MJ, MJ couldn't tell Peter had been replaced by a psychotic scientist who is also a murderer, MJ keeps on dissing Peter even after she found out the truth about Ock, she's dating that firefighter guy.

    4. The relationship pre-OMD was in an even worse state. Civil War DESTROYED Peter and Mary Jane along with their relationship. I understand a marriage has its ups & downs, but the way it was characterised in those years there was no dynamic between Pete & MJ, the interactions between the two were straight-up toxic. I remember full reading pages of Peter and MJ just arguing with frail Aunt May in the background, and issues of MJ pondering over her marriage with Peter where she came across as extremely weak and as wanting out of the marriage, compared to the strong character she was characterised as most of the time. The writers wouldn't even help with the relationship, they'd just keep throwing whatever they got at the marriage. There was a panel in some Spidey issue where MJ comes home to the motel they were hiding in during the Civil War to find Peter extremely bloodied and held in the arms of Aunt May, Aunt May yelling "MARY JANE, HEEELP MEEE!!!" I mean, what? When did Spider-Man stories stop being Spider-Man stories and become something I'd read in a Walking Dead volume? The marriage could've been handled much better but the way Spider-Man as a character was destroyed by the Civil War event the marriage was no longer sustainable, I'm glad OMD happened even though it was so painful to read and it pretty much brought Peter & MJ to the ground along with the marriage.
    Last edited by jgprime; 06-22-2014 at 10:06 PM.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member Vortex85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgprime View Post
    4. The relationship pre-OMD was in an even worse state. Civil War DESTROYED Peter and Mary Jane along with their relationship. I understand a marriage has its ups & downs, but the way it was characterised in those years there was no dynamic between Pete & MJ, the interactions between the two were straight-up toxic. I remember full reading pages of Peter and MJ just arguing with frail Aunt May in the background, and issues of MJ pondering over her marriage with Peter where she came across as extremely weak and as wanting out of the marriage, compared to the strong character she was characterised as most of the time. The writers wouldn't even help with the relationship, they'd just keep throwing whatever they got at the marriage. There was a panel in some Spidey issue where MJ comes home to the motel they were hiding in during the Civil War to find Peter extremely bloodied and held in the arms of Aunt May, Aunt May yelling "MARY JANE, HEEELP MEEE!!!" I mean, what? When did Spider-Man stories stop being Spider-Man stories and become something I'd read in a Walking Dead volume? The marriage could've been handled much better but the way Spider-Man as a character was destroyed by the Civil War event the marriage was no longer sustainable, I'm glad OMD happened even though it was so painful to read and it pretty much brought Peter & MJ to the ground along with the marriage.
    Huh? I didn't read the non-Spidey Civil War comics at this time, but I got all Spider-man comics during that time. Was this in a non-Spidey title? I don't remember any of this. In the main Spidey titles MJ was shown as very supportive during the whole thing.

    EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in 1 issue in Sensational Spider-man. Though this was only one issue. The main run of Amazing didn't portray any of this. You tend to focus on 1 issue and act like it was this big cloud covering the whole arc.
    Last edited by Vortex85; 06-22-2014 at 10:28 PM.

  15. #30
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I'm in my twenties and most of my friends are married. Youth has nothing to do with it.

    Though I think in order for Peter to be an underdog, he can't really have the red head supermodel.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

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