So the young Avenger's show up in Ant Man and no Eli at all...are they trying to just write him out?

[Smoov-E]

Marvel has always done Eli dirty. It's a shame that they made him a steroid/HGH abuser, the reason why some mutants couldn't come back, and a quitter.

I'd include some YA fans in letting Marvel off the hook for it, some folks act like he was never in the original line up and are quick to throw shade on him but won't take kindly to others doing that to other members of the team

[neohuey89]

I'd include some YA fans in letting Marvel off the hook for it, some folks act like he was never in the original line up and are quick to throw shade on him but won't take kindly to others doing that to other members of the team

yeah he's treated like a villain when there's been a fair share of actual villains on the team.

[Marvell2100]

I'd include some YA fans in letting Marvel off the hook for it, some folks act like he was never in the original line up and are quick to throw shade on him but won't take kindly to others doing that to other members of the team

He definitely gets the most shade thrown at him of all the original YAs.

He can't get redemption.
He can't get a do over.
He can't get a break.

[skyvolt2000]

Yup, you're right. We've seen it in Carol, Roy, Tony, who else? I know there's been several out there that have been used to tell a substance abuse story, but for some odd reason Eli is kicked to the curb? Unless it's the whole issue of his race at play? Which would be dumb because anyone can get hooked on something that can be abused.

It could but I think the story would override the race. I mean you have a story about a guy wanting to be like his MIA uncle & grand father and took steroids-if THAT doesn't scream 4 part story by G Willow Wilson or Waid.

I mean if ANYBODY had an issue with Sam as CA-he would be it. That story just sells itself.

Just the latest in a long line.

Synch
Skin
Tarot
Tempest
The Bedlams

Just to name a few.

DC's limbo list is LONGER. At least Eli is taking a back seat to well known guys and not offensive stereotypes named Wally West.

[Rogue Star]

It's crazy to not suspect that the black male thing had something to do with not even be thought of especially with opportunity to work Sam.

Maybe. But I know I'm not crazy in seeing it more this way: Some people don't believe that characters can be sent to the bottom of the order when a more popular character with similarities is promoted but I see it as a reality. I believe characters can be viewed as redundant and then drastically altered or disappeared by Marvel at their pleasure.

[Kieran_Frost]

He definitely gets the most shade thrown at him of all the original YAs.

100% Disagree. Wiccan and Cassie get just as much hate. Hell some even, years after Gillen's run, can't stop throwing shade on a proudly LGBT series centred around a proudly gay character. It's equal shade for Wiccan, Cassie and Eli; they all have their haterz. Kate gets a little (but I always assume that's jealously more than anything else, since she's really taken off). Tommy gets none, neither does Hulkling really, to my knowledge. And no-one thinks of Jonas enough to throw shade at him

[Marvell2100]

100% Disagree. Wiccan and Cassie get just as much hate. Hell some even, years after Gillen's run, can't stop throwing shade on a proudly LGBT series centred around a proudly gay character. It's equal shade for Wiccan, Cassie and Eli; they all have their haterz. Kate gets a little (but I always assume that's jealously more than anything else, since she's really taken off). Tommy gets none, neither does Hulkling really, to my knowledge. And no-one thinks of Jonas enough to throw shade at him

Hmmm....I've haven't seen the level of shade thrown at Wiccan or Cassie that Eli gets. Even so, that hasn't stopped any writer from using those characters.

[Rogue Star]

Hmmm....I've haven't seen the level of shade thrown at Wiccan or Cassie that Eli gets. Even so, that hasn't stopped any writer from using those characters.

Keep in mind that Cassie was put in the grave for a while and only recently resurrected because Scott Lang has a book now, but she's not her old self at all - not by a long shot.

(edit: It just hit me that if Ant-Man didn't have a series right now my girl Cassie would still be dead. Wow. What a depressing thought.)

[itspopularnowitsucks]

Reed Richards hates Eli because Eli stole his muffin during Civil War, so Reed told Molecule Man to erase him from continuity. Molecule Man is very happy to oblige because he has to balance things, like Reed Richards out, The Maker in, Miles in, Eli out etc, and he also understands how evil it is to steal from a hungry man.

[Wiccan]

Hmmm....I've haven't seen the level of shade thrown at Wiccan or Cassie that Eli gets. Even so, that hasn't stopped any writer from using those characters.

I've been seeing some shade to Cassie. But not Billy at all.

[Flash Gordon]

Great character, wasted. Making him a steroid user is fine, but build on it! Create an arc. You can be a hero and still make bad personal life decisions.

[Darkspellmaster]

I'd include some YA fans in letting Marvel off the hook for it, some folks act like he was never in the original line up and are quick to throw shade on him but won't take kindly to others doing that to other members of the team

Some YA fans let Marvel off the Hook because of the fact that they seemed to throw him and Cassie under the bus to get Wanda and Scott back, which is weird too on the part of Wanda fans in some cases. They really like Billy and want him all over and they forget he has a twin, Tommy, who's also a bit on the pissed off side of things being formerly seen as a criminal and isn't used that much at all. Yes on the throwing shade on him, that seems to be a thing, especially now with Prodigy around having been part of the former new team. It's like they're comparing the two.

yeah he's treated like a villain when there's been a fair share of actual villains on the team.

Loki got redeemed, Noh Varr got redeemed, and yet here we have a kid that has a realistic problem and view point, not given a chance to show that there's more to him then angry kid with a former habit. You're right, and Noh Varr's actions in the past are pretty nasty as well in regard to how things played out with his character.

He definitely gets the most shade thrown at him of all the original YAs.

He can't get redemption.
He can't get a do over.
He can't get a break.

Seems like they're trying to bill the new inhuman, I forgot his name, the one with the rocks, as a sort of new Eli like character. You have some great personalities right now running around Marvel: Miles, Kamala, Anya, Sam, etc, who could really be interesting foils in regard to either creating character development with Eli or showing an opposing end of things. I mean someone like Miles, or Sam (Nova) would make for a interesting take on not quitting and given Mile's father's past it would make for a very intense discussion. Kamala being as she is probably would be kind of cool for him to maybe take a different view on how others see the heroes, and i can see her probably winning his friendship over discussing his grandfather and his past.

It could but I think the story would override the race. I mean you have a story about a guy wanting to be like his MIA uncle & grand father and took steroids-if THAT doesn't scream 4 part story by G Willow Wilson or Waid.

I mean if ANYBODY had an issue with Sam as CA-he would be it. That story just sells itself.

DC's limbo list is LONGER. At least Eli is taking a back seat to well known guys and not offensive stereotypes named Wally West.

I agree. Maybe having him search for his Uncle, working with the rest of the CA group and growing as a person from that. I can see either of them coming up with a very strong way of dealing with Eli's past actions, making him come to terms with what happened to his grandfather and probably end his issues with Steve in regard to things. He won't always agree on matters but it would be a good start to show a stronger over all character arc.

Maybe. But I know I'm not crazy in seeing it more this way: Some people don't believe that characters can be sent to the bottom of the order when a more popular character with similarities is promoted but I see it as a reality. I believe characters can be viewed as redundant and then drastically altered or disappeared by Marvel at their pleasure.

It's not so much that a character can't be sent to the bottom, it's when they are written out of existence in such a way as if they were never created in the first place. That's where the rub comes in, it's like Gravity, who was a great strong character but because he was "too much like Peter Parker" even though his abilities were nothing alike, he was sent on the bus after the whole Young Allies series was canceled.

100% Disagree. Wiccan and Cassie get just as much hate. Hell some even, years after Gillen's run, can't stop throwing shade on a proudly LGBT series centred around a proudly gay character. It's equal shade for Wiccan, Cassie and Eli; they all have their haterz. Kate gets a little (but I always assume that's jealously more than anything else, since she's really taken off). Tommy gets none, neither does Hulkling really, to my knowledge. And no-one thinks of Jonas enough to throw shade at him

Wiccan is everyone's love child, apparently, when it looked like Billy and teddy were being split up all heck was breaking loose by fans of them. People blamed Teddy more then they ever blamed Billy, or even Prodigy for that matter. Billy is the "Saint" no wrong can be done by him, ever, apparently in some people's eyes, and that's fine, but Wiccan gets the least attacks over say the others in the group. Cassie gets hate but not as much, and Kate really only got it because of the whole thing with Marvel Boy, and sleeping with him. Tommy barely ever gets mention, I think Al has had Billy talk about him in the Avenger's series but he's not been shown a lot in most series. Cassie's memory is the first I've heard of him since YA 2, and that's been what, two years?

Hmmm....I've haven't seen the level of shade thrown at Wiccan or Cassie that Eli gets. Even so, that hasn't stopped any writer from using those characters.

Exactly, a number of characters get attacked, but Marvel let's them be used. It's rather rude when you don't even show the character in a flash back.

Keep in mind that Cassie was put in the grave for a while and only recently resurrected because Scott Lang has a book now, but she's not her old self at all - not by a long shot.

(edit: It just hit me that if Ant-Man didn't have a series right now my girl Cassie would still be dead. Wow. What a depressing thought.)

Cassie still has a shot with Stinger, and I'm pretty sure that Marvel wasn't about to leave her in the dirt due to how they seem to want to go down a remade MC2 path for the future. She's not her old self, very true, and it seems she's a bit more excitable? Wonder how long they're going to let her stay Stinger.

I've been seeing some shade to Cassie. But not Billy at all.

Great character, wasted. Making him a steroid user is fine, but build on it! Create an arc. You can be a hero and still make bad personal life decisions.

Exactly! Look at Tony and Scott Lang, walking bill board for it. Rouge stole people's powers, Wanda...well we won't get into that, Reed's actions, T'challa's and even Bucky's, everyone in the MU makes mistakes and bad choices from time to time, they get arcs to clean it up why not him? If the rest of the YA cast can pretty much become the darlings of the MU, why not afford that option to Eli? Or is Marvel just scared someone's going to scream something about it being wrong?

[Kevinroc]

It sucks that Eli has been left to rot in comic book limbo. I would agree the steroid story was kinda dumb, and carries with it some unfortunate implications that were not intended.

But it seems like they are starting to bring some of the Young Avengers together in more casual situations. Kate showed up to visit Cassie in Ant-Man, MAC having conversations with Kate in Hawkeye. Aren't Billy and Teddy going to see some of their old friends in New Avengers? Hopefully we can see Eli there. Build him back up.

(Is Marvel trying to distance the Captain America franchise from The Truth mini?)

[Rogue Star]

I liked the whole steroid thing. I think it was worth exploring. I do feel like the blood transfusion that ended up giving him super powers was a little too convenient though. It's almost like he was rewarded for doing the wrong thing. >.>

But anyway, I don't know what's going on with Eli for sure. I just have my suspicions that Marvel doesn't want two african american Captain America-ish characters around at one time. Hence that redundancy thing I made mention of earlier.

[Muffin Crud]

This is so messed up. He's one of the best characters from YA and the effort to forget him is disturbing.