So the young Avenger's show up in Ant Man and no Eli at all...are they trying to just write him out?

[Marvell2100]

You must not have seen the thread for every Young Avengers issue (and corresponding threads) when Gillen's run was out. Wiccan maybe in Ewing's run, but he's not anywhere close to the protagonist now, so the hate is less. The hate is always strongest when you're doing well. When he was happily tucked into a supporting role in the first volume there was no hate, move him to prominence in Children's Crusade or Gillen's run = the river of rage runs strong. (also there is some A-grade hate being thrown around in this thread for him; so = lol).


True, but that's really two separate issues; the predominant one being if Marvel ever wants to push an LGBT character to a prominent role, Wiccan and Hulkling are almost their only option. They won't push an X-man, and that cuts out 80% of the LGBT characters that had ever mattered.

That still doesn't change the fact that Eli gets more hate than any of the original YA. People hate because he was "responsible" for ruing the spell that would bring mutants back. People harp on him because he used 'roids. People say he was too sanctimonious.

And that isn't a separate issue from the fact that he isn't being used. Fan outrage broke up the marriage between Storm and Black Panther. It's not even acknowledged anymore because a segment of fans didn't like it. I haven't seen any kind of interaction between the two since that one night stand lo these many years ago.

So let's not pretend that fan reactions don't have an impact on characters sometimes.

[Marvell2100]

He is in Contest of Champions.

Which one? Dwayne or Donyell?

[itspopularnowitsucks]

Which one? Dwayne or Donyell?

Dwayne. It's revealed that he's been snatched up in the last second of explosion by the Collector.

If Ewing was to write a Young Avengers book, you can bet Eli will be brought up in conversations if not showing up from retirement at one point.

Just look at his Secret Avengers.

[Kieran_Frost]

That still doesn't change the fact that Eli gets more hate than any of the original YA. People hate because he was "responsible" for ruing the spell that would bring mutants back. People harp on him because he used 'roids. People say he was too sanctimonious.

Nah. I see no evidence than Eli gets any more (or less) hate than Billy (or Cassie... though Cassie is more playful dislike than actual angry dislike). Hell, out of this thread the more venomous dislike has been aimed at Billy. Those who say they don't like Eli, have been far more civil in tone. Worth noting.

And that isn't a separate issue from the fact that he isn't being used. Fan outrage broke up the marriage between Storm and Black Panther. It's not even acknowledged anymore because a segment of fans didn't like it. I haven't seen any kind of interaction between the two since that one night stand lo these many years ago.

So let's not pretend that fan reactions don't have an impact on characters sometimes.

Agreed, though Wiccan has an incredible amount of fan support as well (more so than Eli). Partly because, as a gay male who gets a central story... Wiccan and Teddy pretty unique. But the fan support in this case is not the issue. Even with the haterz, Wiccan/Hulkling is Marvel's only chance to promote a popular LGBT character. Hate or not, THAT is why he sticks around. He's Obi-Wan Kenobi, and he's their only hope

[Darkspellmaster]

Nah. I see no evidence than Eli gets any more (or less) hate than Billy (or Cassie... though Cassie is more playful dislike than actual angry dislike). Hell, out of this thread the more venomous dislike has been aimed at Billy. Those who say they don't like Eli, have been far more civil in tone. Worth noting.

I wouldn't say that most of the venomous dislike is aimed at Billy, just that in a lot of cases he is one of the more frequent characters that gets off the hook at times. Loki had it for a LOOOOOONG while before the whole reform thing, there are several X-men characters that get off the hook a lot, I would rather not go into Moonstone or Emma Frost in regard to getting off the hook for actions in the past, although with Emma she "reformed".

See there's the rub in this case. Billy, Cassie, Tommy, Teddy, Kate, are all around so that they can grow and change. You can have moments when they make bad choices and we see what's going on there, but Eli doesn't get to have this at all. Same for several of the Run away characters that have vanished and Gravity. These are characters that are just wiped away, but unlike Eli, they have shown up, at least the Runaways have (Gravity not so much since Young Allies). Eli, a character who would normally be a front and center character given the view of diversification, is no where in sight while all of his team mates are still running around and playing hero. To me it's a bit of a kick in the teeth, especially to Alan who based both Billy and Eli on aspects of his own personality in a lot of ways. Billy being the geeky side, and Eli being the more serious side and sadly Eli was given the drug issue, while Billy, Tommy, Cassie, Teddy, and Kate got to be a team and still keep in contact, it's as if Marvel wants to rewrite the past.

And let's not forget the fact that of the team, if we ignore the fact that Hulking is part Skrull and sometimes green, is pretty much a bunch of white kids running around. Eli was the one person of Color in the group, which was why we got america and Prodigy the next round to give more diversification to the team. So when that image of the YA group shows up in Ant Man my mind went, "Are they trying to make the other diverse kid vanish? Why?" I would have the same feeling of annoyence if they didn't show Billy or Teddy (hell they didn't show Teddy and that was annoying to me).

Agreed, though Wiccan has an incredible amount of fan support as well (more so than Eli). Partly because, as a gay male who gets a central story... Wiccan and Teddy pretty unique. But the fan support in this case is not the issue. Even with the haterz, Wiccan/Hulkling is Marvel's only chance to promote a popular LGBT character. Hate or not, THAT is why he sticks around. He's Obi-Wan Kenobi, and he's their only hope

Eli has a huge amount of support from fans, it's just that no one's listening. Technically they were when they first showed up, but now we have a number of other gay couples in comics as well, and sadly sometimes I feel like Teddy get's shorter shrift to Billy because he's Wanda and Visions son. You do know of North Star, Deadpool, Pod, America Chavez, etc. I wouldn't say Billy/Teddy are the only hope, i don't even think either of them would see themselves as such. Growth in that area is slow, as is though representation of younger black male and female characters. Or teens in general in the MU:

Anay -hispanic
Kamala -Pakastaini
Miles -black and hispanic
Sam -hispanic and white
A few of the X-kids who haven't been featuring prominently in recent years
Cloak -black
Shuri -black (right now dead)

I mean seriously, so many teen characters have disappered in recent years, and yet YA's original team seems to be the more prominent of the bunch. You would think that Marvel would at least extend a curtesy to all members (Eli, Kate, Cassie, Billy, Tommy and Teddy) to promote them since they are the more well known and well liked of the Marvel teen heroes. And Kate, can we even qualify her as a YA anymore as she's 21 or was aged to that, and now I'm not sure anymore because of the whole Secret wars thing, seems to be the most promoted followed probably By Billy and by extension Teddy (and I still feel that Teddy should be promoted on his own for a while), then Cassie, while Tommy and Eli both get forgotten about. Except Tommy played a big role in the House of M storyline for the Battle world and was shown in the picture. Eli and Teddy, no where to be found.

I'm sure it was a case of "Small panel" but still, this is Cassie's history, these were her friends, friends she still communicates with as Kate showing up at her house shows that at least Kate talks to her still. So why hasn't one of her friends been featured anywhere at all since the early 2000s?