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[Johnrevenge]

I can see where the execution is more gratuitous, yes. Which is a Duggan/writer's prerogative thing.

I was really specifically addressing the "heroes don't kill" ideology and why I believe it's not really applicable in this extinction event. Do we need to actually see every single X-Man snapping necks and eviscerating Orchis goons? No. (It might have actually been more effective if he did hold back a bit.) But from my perspective it is understandable.

For me the problem is not the killing itself, as it had been said they are at war, and sometimes it's needed to make hard decissions. The problem is the fact that they seem to enjoy murdering people which feels extremely out of character.

[Grunty]

For me the problem is not the killing itself, as it had been said they are at war, and sometimes it's needed to make hard decissions. The problem is the fact that they seem to enjoy murdering people which feels extremely out of character.

It's like the writer has put them in "Punisher" mode, which is a realm from which the reputation of super heros seldomly comes back from unscratched, requiring dedicated repairwork or full blown retcons afterwards.

[superjosh]

That's what her job was in X-treme X-men.

Don't remind me of the numerous times Claremont tried to re-invent Kitty/Kate as a hip, young, whippersnapper lmao. "AS IF!!!"

[Devaishwarya]

For me the problem is not the killing itself, as it had been said they are at war, and sometimes it's needed to make hard decissions. The problem is the fact that they seem to enjoy murdering people which feels extremely out of character.

Admittedly I'm not reading these last FoX books so I can't say if they are in fact enjoying all the killing (apart from that Polaris entrance). Which, again would be a Duggan thing...for effect?

[Sisterhood Of Mutants]

Don't remind me of the numerous times Claremont tried to re-invent Kitty/Kate as a hip, young, whippersnapper lmao. "AS IF!!!"

Lol if only it ended with him. How many makeovers and new titles/code names did she get during Krakoa alone?

[Corwin]

After reading and loving X-Men for nearly four decades...I have absolutely no issues with them killing their opponents in this War of Survival.
When they were saving the world and all its peoples from certain death (against Cordyceps and Co.) they were heroic.
This is a very different type of conflict, and what was applied then cannot be applied now. And as with IRL wars...those who have never killed before, those who never liked killing before must do so now for the sake of their own lives and that of those they love. This is high-stakes- kill or be killed-self defense. Because they are not just fighting for their own mutant lives but for all of humanity.

And some will argue that those Orchis grunts don't deserve to die but consider (since we love to equate with Real Life) no soldier who enlists to fight a war on behalf of their country deserves to die either but that is the job they chose and the risk they take. The very ones who win our wars for us and are lauded as heroes are alive because they killed other soldiers on the battlefields.

And while it's a difficult thing to do, and there will be/should be scars, the stronger ones will go back to their more heroic selves and ideology, embracing life and loves, once the enemy has been vanquished. (Maybe Kate quits and becomes a barista because she doesn't want to cope with all that she's been through and had to do and serving coffee helps)

I feel you on this.

unXm3.jpg

It's been mentioned numerous times before the big Schism about burying your friends in the back yard of Mansion.
(Let me preface by saying I am, by no means perfect, nor think that I'm 100% correct.)

Killing should happen. Not as the answer to every situation but after this war with Orchis maybe keep X-Force out there doing the dirty work.
Hell I get the feeling the X-Men themselves will divide around how to handle interaction with the world as a whole.

On a bit of a tangent. If mutants were persecuted, hunted and treated as second class citizens why not form your own nation? Why not make some place where people could feel safe. I LOVED Krakoa for this one fact. I loved House of X when Jean brought the kids to Krakoa and they were able to play in the field and pounce on Wolverine of all people. To me Krakoa was a good starting point, it was great that ALL mutants were welcome. Maybe it's location shouldn't have been known to the public. It should have given mutants a safe starting point to begin finding ways to intergrade with human society. I do feel that Krakoa went too far into being separatists or maybe they couldn't catch their breaths dealing with one extreme threat after another.

Who knows maybe From the Ashes will deal with different factions trying to find the best way forward. It would be great if Marvel could equally portray all the sides being equally right and wrong. Give Cyclops and Magneto the pro-active roles, their team deals with the big threats to mutant kind like Orchis while keeping a safe haven for mutants.

Rogue's team handle defensive stuff and be the "super heroes" the world sees, standing with the Avengers and the Fantastic Four dealing with disasters and super villains. They can be like the Unity Squad, public facing, peaceful coexistence.

Emma an Kitty's book can be the school book. New generation of Mutants BUT we need to see something of the previous Generations. If not this book in another.

X-Force...keep doing what they have been doing. Black Ops. More unrelenting, unforgiving and in the shadows than Cyclops and Magneto's semi public team.

Not sure if I ended up where I meant to when I started this post....

[Mantis-Ray]

Really the problem here is that Duggan is just a bad writer.

Like I'm not even against killing as a whole, but logically it should be a mix of the more unrestrained characters going wild vs the restrained still keeping some restraint cause they aren't that kind of people.

Like Wolverine going into a beserker rage and butchering people is fine, that is in character. Nightcrawler though shouldn't do that, he shouldn't be doing stuff like launching nukes and having enemies undergo radiation death.

[Dementia5]

Clint Eastwood style

I can’t help but think that Clint in his Outlaw Josey Wales era would have made an iconic Wolverine.

Yes, I said it.

[superjosh]

Lol if only it ended with him. How many makeovers and new titles/code names did she get during Krakoa alone?

haha true but CC's were always the most out of touch and cringe. "I know, a leather jacket!", "what about a motorcycle?!", and "oh and she's a flirty bartender too!"

[Frontier]

Really the problem here is that Duggan is just a bad writer.

Like I'm not even against killing as a whole, but logically it should be a mix of the more unrestrained characters going wild vs the restrained still keeping some restraint cause they aren't that kind of people.

Like Wolverine going into a beserker rage and butchering people is fine, that is in character. Nightcrawler though shouldn't do that, he shouldn't be doing stuff like launching nukes and having enemies undergo radiation death.

He hasn't been delivering some of his best work lately.

[Master of Sound]

I always loved how Rogue and Wolverine were (drinking) buddies in the Outback period. She was a tough cookie, like a tom-boy, I liked the dynamics between them. Hope we see that back.

[Woozie]

Really the problem here is that Duggan is just a bad writer.

Like I'm not even against killing as a whole, but logically it should be a mix of the more unrestrained characters going wild vs the restrained still keeping some restraint cause they aren't that kind of people.

Like Wolverine going into a beserker rage and butchering people is fine, that is in character. Nightcrawler though shouldn't do that, he shouldn't be doing stuff like launching nukes and having enemies undergo radiation death.

Yeah, this is my fundamental problem with a lot of this.

Going into FoX, I figured X-men #25 was Kitty's



And I presumed we were going to visualize a very stark and dedicated character change through the lense of Pryde alone.

Like I expect Wolverine to be violent, I was under the impression that the aim was to very clearly pivot Kitty into a similar position as a result of this fall out.

But when Nightcrawler, who has been notably a very strong proponent of pacifism, and Colossus, who has had a long stretch of inactivity characterization wise, due to brainwashing, are acting no different from them. It makes it all feel hollow.

[juan678]

https://twitter.com/BraddockFamily/s...57091720483194

[Havok83]

Yeah, this is my fundamental problem with a lot of this.

Going into FoX, I figured X-men #25 was Kitty's



And I presumed we were going to visualize a very stark and dedicated character change through the lense of Pryde alone.

Like I expect Wolverine to be violent, I was under the impression that the aim was to very clearly pivot Kitty into a similar position as a result of this fall out.

But when Nightcrawler, who has been notably a very strong proponent of pacifism, and Colossus, who has had a long stretch of inactivity characterization wise, due to brainwashing, are acting no different from them. It makes it all feel hollow.

Collossus just killed his brother and was after years of having his head messed with. Him killing in FoX didnt seem off considering where X-Force left him. There is no excuse for Kurt though as thats a huge disconnect from how he has been portrayed

[Nicoclaws]

https://twitter.com/BraddockFamily/s...57091720483194

Ah so they're going full "butch rebel /prim and proper suit lady" tropes. I'm ok with that.