Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Marvell2100]

I refuse to spend another dime on that story troupe.

Unless I get something epic....

We won't be seeing that anytime soon.

[XPac]

Hickman had T'Challa restore Wakanda at the end of Secret Wars to the point they were launching their space program so Wakanda was not in a bad place...until Coates put them there. Coates just chose to ignore where Hickman left BP and Wakanda to do his "No one man" agenda.

Coates didn't ignore Hickman's ending... he didn't know it when he wrote his story. FOrtunately (or unfortuantely depending on how you look at it), he really didn't need to know Hickmans ending because marvel essentially decided to just ignore it and say all the incursion happened anyways. So Hickman traveling back to New Avengers 1 really ended up not doing anything.

[Marvell2100]

I understand, but my money hard-earned. I brought paperbacks of Hickman's run right before the destruction of Wakanda by Thanos. I did not even finish reading those because I grew bored with the depressing, and endless story. One of the themes of that run was T'Challa's own warriors & sister turning against him over bad decision making. Then Coates comes in with a 12 issue story that should have only lasted about four using those same story beats.

Someone in editorial should have put the breaks on.

Coates said he read the Hickman run. He should have gone in the another direction for his first arc.

I can't waste my money like that.

He must have stopped reading after the part where the Cabal destroyed Wakanda or else he would have known that Hickman had T'Challa restore Wakanda. But again, it conflicts with the "No one man" agenda.

[XPac]

How so since T'Challa restored Wakanda? He decided to bring back a Wakanda in shambles? That wasn't the notion at the end of Secret Wars.

THe notion at the end of Secret Wars was that T'CHalla traveled back in time to New Avengers 1 before all the bad stuff happened.

But marvel decided that the incursions all still happened, so effectively T'Challa traveling back in time didn't change anything. Wakanda was still attacked. Shuri was still killed.

[Anthony Shaw]

Honestly I think in a lot of ways it was one long deconstruction story. What T'Challa lost in that cumberstomp from Doom he only essentially got back at the very end of Hickmans run, with Coates story being the fall out from that.

Part of the reason I think it took so long for T'Challa recover is that I think BP writers wanted to give Shuri some time as Black Panther and ruler of Wakanda to make her more relavent, since the possibility of her going into limbo once T'Challa got back everything he lost was much higher if she didn't really establish herself well.

In the least, T'Challa seems to have turned a corner. Coates seems to have gotten a sort of reverse trajectory from other writers. Priest and Hudlin got T'CHalla at high points and slowly things went downhill. Coates got him at a low point, and things are slowly going uphill.

Hickman helped me break the cycle of buying BP for completion purposes as opposed to pure enjoyment. Although I came close, I resisted the urge to waste not a single red cent on Coates.

I made better use of my disposable funds supporting single mothers & college women at the strip club.

[Anthony Shaw]

Priest did not get T'Challa at a high point. BP did not have a solo for nearly 20 years before Priest did his solo in 1998. His last serial story was in Marvel Comics Presents in 1989. Panther's Prey was in 1991.

BP was a blank slate when Priest started his run.

[Ezyo1000]

To be fair, T'Challa wasn't necessarily making BAD decision... he was making tough decisions. And that's something that "kings" sometimes need to do.

He did lie to his people and do things behind their backs. And that justifiably got a lot of people angry with him. But you can also argue in the end he made the RIGHT decisions, even if Wakanda got blown up a couple of times because of them.

And yes that can be depressing. At times I felt that way about Priests run too. Black Panther is a power fantasy in a sense, but it's also in a lot of ways a HORRIBLE job where you're forced to make impossible decisions. IMO at least, Black Panther is not the best character choice for readers who want to avoid darker more depressing stories because I think he'll always get his share of that. He's somewhat of a dark character by nature and I think he essentially has to be because of his job.

Going back, this here isn't True about darker tones as Hudlin Showed that it's dark if you want it to be

[XPac]

Hickman helped me break the cycle of buying BP for completion purposes as opposed to pure enjoyment. Although I came close, I resisted the urge to waste not a single red cent on Coates.

I made better use of my disposable funds supporting single mothers & college women at the strip club.

Marvel itself would tell you to do just that. Vote with your dollars and buy what you like. THat's exactly how the system is supposed to work. It's when people buy stuff that they don't like where marvel potentially gets it's wires crossed.

[Marvell2100]

Coates didn't ignore Hickman's ending... he didn't know it when he wrote his story. FOrtunately (or unfortuantely depending on how you look at it), he really didn't need to know Hickmans ending because marvel essentially decided to just ignore it and say all the incursion happened anyways. So Hickman traveling back to New Avengers 1 really ended up not doing anything.

Coates had no interest in what Hickman was doing or else he would have inquired. We have Wakanda launching an international space program in Ultimates and we have a government to feeble to stop a rebellion or too sorry to do anything about rape camps springing up like weeds all over Wakanda in the BP solo.

[Marvell2100]

THe notion at the end of Secret Wars was that T'CHalla traveled back in time to New Avengers 1 before all the bad stuff happened.

But marvel decided that the incursions all still happened, so effectively T'Challa traveling back in time didn't change anything. Wakanda was still attacked. Shuri was still killed.

S if everything still happened, how did Wakanda get restored? It should still be in shambles decimated by the Cabal with millions of Wakandans dead,

[XPac]

Going back, this here isn't True about darker tones as Hudlin Showed that it's dark if you want it to be

I didn't say he ALWAYS gets darker tones. I merely said he'll always get his share of that. Overally I don't think Hudlins run was that dark either. Then again Hudlin did kill off the majority of T'CHalla male supporting cast and ended his run with the character dethroned and just recovering from a coma. So even he went there eventually.

But you're right, most of his run had more of a Saturday MOrning Cartoon vibe, and I mean that in a good way. It's probably a big part of why it sold as well as it did.

[XPac]

S if everything still happened, how did Wakanda get restored? It should still be in shambles decimated by the Cabal with millions of Wakandans dead,

It SHOULD be. We know the attacks still happened, but Wakanda is in better shape than it was in Time Runs Out and there seems to be more than 2000 Wakandans left. Either the second time around the attack wasn't as bad, or maybe Reed and company magically helped Wakanda out when they restored the multiverse. But yeah... there's a lot of question marks there.

[XPac]

Coates had no interest in what Hickman was doing or else he would have inquired. We have Wakanda launching an international space program in Ultimates and we have a government to feeble to stop a rebellion or too sorry to do anything about rape camps springing up like weeds all over Wakanda in the BP solo.

According to Starlin he tried inquiring what HIckman was doing with Thanos when he was doing his Infinity stuff, and had the same problem.

But like I said, because marvel editorial made the decision that the incursions still happened (rather than retconning the entire MU all the way back to NA 1), it really ended up not mattering whether or not he knew Hickmans ending. Marvel essentially ignored it anyways.

[Marvell2100]

It SHOULD be. We know the attacks still happened, but Wakanda is in better shape than it was in Time Runs Out and there seems to be more than 2000 Wakandans left. Either the second time around the attack wasn't as bad, or maybe Reed and company magically helped Wakanda out when they restored the multiverse. But yeah... there's a lot of question marks there.

So, my point stands that Coates had no interest in what state Hickman left BP and Wakanda in. Regardless, he was going to do this story whether Wakanda was restored or not.

[Marvell2100]

According to Starlin he tried inquiring what HIckman was doing with Thanos when he was doing his Infinity stuff, and had the same problem.

But like I said, because marvel editorial made the decision that the incursions still happened (rather than retconning the entire MU all the way back to NA 1), it really ended up not mattering whether or not he knew Hickmans ending. Marvel essentially ignored it anyways.

It contradicts what is happening in Ultimates with the launching of the space program. Wakanda should be in no shape to take part in this.