Do you seriously think that anything is going to happen to the Illuminati? We've already seen the solicits, Tony is Superior Iron Man. They may get beaten up a bit, endure some cold shoulders for a while, Reed may get another stern look from Sue, but consequences? Only until the redemption mini and then it's washed away.
That's perfectly plausible. Some people will defend Namor and some will defend Bishop. And then some would call them both murderer's. It's all based on one's perspective. I'm just pointing out the fact they they've killed billions. I applied no moral judgment to their actions. There can be a case made for and against both.
The only problem I have is that they've pretty much ruined two good characters in the process. But then some would disagree with that statement as well.
So I take it you feel President Obama (and, indeed, every president) should be tried for murder? He kills the enemy combatants so what he loves (Americans, in theory) won’t be killed and there hasn’t been a war declared. If Namor declared a war on the world that was threatening his people's existence, would that have made it right?
“I’ll kill them so what I love won’t be killed” seems eminently reasonable. Indeed, Namor had every obligation to protect the people he ruled over. A King’s foremost responsibility is to protect his people, and in this case, his world.
As for facing consequences, anyone who tries to punish Namor will have to at least wrestle with the reality that Namor is the reason they and everyone they ever loved are alive. “My family and I are alive because you saved us, so now face my wrath!”
Indeed. I’ve used the analogy that, in the incursion situation, the Earth is really like a cancer upon the universe. It has to be removed or the entire Universe will die. Lance Armstrong didn’t want to remove that testicle, but he had to and because he did he was around to achieve legendary cycling status.
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Like I said, I don't know what he'll do. Steve may not even be Cap when it all goes down. He may not imprison the other Illuminati members because they weren't the ones to actually pull the trigger. Or he may feel they're guilty because they actually built the bombs. But someone is going to be the villain in this story and someone or a lot of someone's will pay the price.
Not the ones who judge Namor are people from another universe altogether. Nor do I think Obama should be tried for murder. It's a nice little moral block to compare one to another, but the fact of the matter is that there is a difference between a king protecting his people by waging war and a king protecting his people by murder. Obama has not ordered the middle east nuked. Namor pretty much did. If his first obligation is to protect his people then his second should have been to protect them in another way. If all he was worried about was his peoples survival he could have shifted the relatively small population of Atlantis out of the universe.
I could judge Namor if I were from the mu because while had a right to decide for his people, his people weren't the only ones involved. He decided to choose for everyone without consulting anyone and that overstepping what ever responsibility he might have had. In my opinion he was wrong and also in my opinion any consequences will probably be of the 'now you must live with what you've done' type. I think marvel is too cynical and considers life too cheap for anything else.
Well lets look at what some members of the Illuminati have lost already.
Black Bolt has lost his kingdom.
T'Challa is cut off from Wakanda.
Dr Strange is losing his soul.
Namor has lost his kingdom.
Beast has lost his way.
Reed is okay so far.
Bruce seems content that the Hulk will finally be killed.
It may not be the punishment you think they deserve but they aren't going through this unscathed. And the story isn't over yet.
In regard to the cosmic beings, that has been addressed within the confines of the story. And it would also defeat the purpose of the story to rob the characters of their agency by having cosmic entities wave their fingers and fix things.
And "abomination" is overly harsh. Clearly the story is compelling given your continued involvement in each and every thread on the topic.
Hasn't this been the course of action you have been asking for? Punishment for the Illuminati and for those involved to retain their morals and allow the incursion to destroy both universes?
Obama kills plenty of people in drone strikes. By your rationale, he intends to kill them and then does and there is no war. He should then be considered a murderer. He hasn’t killed the whole Middle East because the whole Middle East isn’t directly threatening America.
Moreover, if he didn’t act TWO WHOLE UNIVERSES would have died. Would you approve of dropping a bomb on one town if it would save the entire country from death? Namor’s choice was exponentially more lop-sided, as there are enumerable lives in the universe (x2).
The Marvel wiki has 192 planets listed (and of course, there are many more planets in the universe than would be listed on the wiki so even this calculation will be much less). Assuming they all have Earth like populations (7 billion), that’s 1,344 billion sentient lives . Double it because there’s two universes, and that’s 2,688 billion. 2,688 billion against 7 billion. And of course, that 7 billion would die ANYWAY if nothing was done. How could anyone NOT make that choice?
Namor’s act wasn’t selfish. He did a monstrous act because to not act would have invited the unimaginable.
Last edited by Exciter; 08-30-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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