Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[XPac]

Especially when whatever Thanos does also affects the White Gorilla tribe.

Sure. I don't think anyone is arguing that M'Baku shouldn't fight. The point of contention might be that T'CHalla is putting them in a postion where they might have to fight in the first place.

If T'Challa were frankly to say screw Vision, get the gem off of him (effectively killing him), and then trying to destroy the gem Wakanda the world arguably would be safer. Though that's also a dick move ... obviously T'Challa was going to help the Avengers and try to save Vision... that's what heroes do.

[XPac]

Thing is in EG he didn't have to show up. At that point Thanos army was not invading Wakanda and as such he could of chosen not to fight. Sure you can Try the argument that he would have an issue after IW but put it aside for a greater threat at their doorstep, but EG they took the fight too Thanos and in that case he would have no reason to go if he didn't believe in T'Challa. They are allies in the MCU, M'Baku is better for it, he has gained more love and respect then he ever would had he stayed a villain. The sooner people accept this and embrace it, the better off M'Baku can be by continuing to grow as a character

In End Game Thanos was going to destory all life in the Universe. That's a pretty darn good reason for M'Baku to show up and fight.

[Dboi654]

Thing is in EG he didn't have to show up. At that point Thanos army was not invading Wakanda and as such he could of chosen not to fight. Sure you can Try the argument that he would have an issue after IW but put it aside for a greater threat at their doorstep, but EG they took the fight too Thanos and in that case he would have no reason to go if he didn't believe in T'Challa. They are allies in the MCU, M'Baku is better for it, he has gained more love and respect then he ever would had he stayed a villain. The sooner people accept this and embrace it, the better off M'Baku can be by continuing to grow as a character

He was not invading Wakanda but he was still going to collect the stones again and snap half of the earth from existence and I don't think M'Baku would want that to happen again considering what he witnessed during the first snap when he saw his people turn to dust

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Sure. I don't think anyone is arguing that M'Baku shouldn't fight. The point of contention might be that T'CHalla is putting them in a postion where they might have to fight in the first place.

If T'Challa were frankly to say screw Vision, get the gem off of him (effectively killing him), and then trying to destroy the gem Wakanda the world arguably would be safer. Though that's also a dick move ... obviously T'Challa was going to help the Avengers and try to save Vision... that's what heroes do.

Exactly. Imagine if someone from the Jabari/Wakandans saw Scarlett Witch kill Vision. Some would feel some type of way about her staying with him instead of protecting lives (Okoye even points that out) All those Wakandan lives killed in battle didn't come back from the snap.

T'Challa's decision is something that wasn't 100% made clear to everyone. You can bet someone felt T'Challa should have pulled the sneak move and have Shuri kill Vision.

Wakanda saved, disaster avoided, people upset but it was the right thing to do. It also ties into the "Its hard for a good man to be king."

Someone can question if T'Challa going to make the tough decisions. It took a 1 in 14 million? chance for everyone to come back. 5 years lost.

T'Challa/Wakanda the most powerful person and place on the planet didn't make the hard decision. Instead he was thinking like Cap. Like a hero. Instead of a king.

[MindofShadow]

Tell me again why M'Baku needs to be a villain?

Because the plot of BP2 should obviously be M'baku and Nakia heal turning and team up with Namor, T'challa being out numbered and too weak to fight back, searches African for his long lost love Storm, who returns to save Wakanda. In failure, T'challa gives up the title to Shuri and retires in shame.

He becomes the Butler to the new Avengers mansion. Serves great tea and irons the cloak of levitation when Strange is taking a break. He also takes up hair styling and is responsible for Carol's different hair looks. He also helps Peter with his algebra on the side.

[Marvell2100]

Zanda
Achebe
Secret Empire
Madame Slay
If you want an aquatic villain then make it Attuma.
Serpent Society(would be visually cool).
Deadly Nightshade

No shortage of good villains.

[XPac]

Exactly. Imagine if someone from the Jabari/Wakandans saw Scarlett Witch kill Vision. Some would feel some type of way about her staying with him instead of protecting lives (Okoye even points that out) All those Wakandan lives killed in battle didn't come back from the snap.

T'Challa's decision is something that wasn't 100% made clear to everyone. You can bet someone felt T'Challa should have pulled the sneak move and have Shuri kill Vision.

Wakanda saved, disaster avoided, people upset but it was the right thing to do. It also ties into the "Its hard for a good man to be king."

Someone can question if T'Challa going to make the tough decisions. It took a 1 in 14 million? chance for everyone to come back. 5 years lost.

T'Challa/Wakanda the most powerful person and place on the planet didn't make the hard decision. Instead he was thinking like Cap. Like a hero. Instead of a king.

It's definately a situation T'Challa has found in the comics unfortunately is familiar with.

In AvX and Time Runs Out he used Wakanda to protect his friends, which in term helped the greater good... but it painted a bullseye on Wakanda, and they ultimately paid a price for it. There can be a price for acting like a super hero rather than a king unfortunately. We'll see whether or not they go that route in the MCU.

[Ezyo1000]

He was not invading Wakanda but he was still going to collect the stones again and snap half of the earth from existence and I don't think M'Baku would want that to happen again considering what he witnessed during the first snap when he saw his people turn to dust

So then he would realize it wouldn't matter whether or not the Avengers came to Wakanda because the results would of been the same. So again, no need to have beef with T'Challa

[XPac]

So then he would realize it wouldn't matter whether or not the Avengers came to Wakanda because the results would of been the same. So again, no need to have beef with T'Challa

In mattered in the sense that there likely was a loss of Wakandan life due to the actual invasion (apart from the snap) because the conflict was brought to Wakanda's doorstep. They were put in a position where they needed to fight off an invasion because T'Challa chose to try and save Visions life. It's similar to how SOME were upset with things like AvX and Time Runs Out. T'Challa uses Wakanda as a resource to help the Avengers... and that's not necessarily the wrong thing to do, but it unfortunately comes at a price for Wakanda.

[Ezyo1000]

Exactly. Imagine if someone from the Jabari/Wakandans saw Scarlett Witch kill Vision. Some would feel some type of way about her staying with him instead of protecting lives (Okoye even points that out) All those Wakandan lives killed in battle didn't come back from the snap.

T'Challa's decision is something that wasn't 100% made clear to everyone. You can bet someone felt T'Challa should have pulled the sneak move and have Shuri kill Vision.

Wakanda saved, disaster avoided, people upset but it was the right thing to do. It also ties into the "Its hard for a good man to be king."

Someone can question if T'Challa going to make the tough decisions. It took a 1 in 14 million? chance for everyone to come back. 5 years lost.

T'Challa/Wakanda the most powerful person and place on the planet didn't make the hard decision. Instead he was thinking like Cap. Like a hero. Instead of a king.

Then Thanos comes to Wakanda, finds out the stone is gone, kills everyone there, then leaves. No one comes back. Or kills everyone, uses time Stone, gets minds stone then leaves. OR kills everyone, Thor comes and kills him then half the heroes are dead and Wakanda is devastated with no return

[XPac]

Then Thanos comes to Wakanda, finds out the stone is gone, kills everyone there, then leaves. No one comes back. Or kills everyone, uses time Stone, gets minds stone then leaves. OR kills everyone, Thor comes and kills him then half the heroes are dead and Wakanda is devastated with no return

That's possible. T'Challa bringing the mind gem to Wakanda for any reason, be it to help vision or to destory the mind gem, does put Wakanda in Thanos cross hairs. Had he suceeded in stopping Thanos from getting the gem (which in hindsight would probably be impossible once he got the time stone) then objectively speaking it would be worth the cost regardless of what price Wakanda might have paid.

Which is probably why some in Wakanda might wish they were more isolationist. T'Challa involving Wakanda and bringing the gem into their borders does put them at risk. Even if it's doing the right thing for the right reason, it's painting a bullseye on them like the one we saw in the comics in AvX and Time Runs Out.

But that's the sort of king Wakanda has. They have a super hero for a king, and he won't turn his back his friends despite the risks.

[Ezyo1000]

That's possible. T'Challa bringing the mind gem to Wakanda for any reason, be it to help vision or to destory the mind gem, does put Wakanda in Thanos cross hairs. Had he suceeded in stopping Thanos from getting the gem (which in hindsight would probably be impossible once he got the time stone) then objectively speaking it would be worth the cost regardless of what price Wakanda might have paid.

Which is probably why some in Wakanda might wish they were more isolationist. T'Challa involving Wakanda and bringing the gem into their borders does put them at risk. Even if it's doing the right thing for the right reason, it's painting a bullseye on them like the one we saw in the comics in AvX and Time Runs Out.

But that's the sort of king Wakanda has. They have a super hero for a king, and he won't turn his back his friends despite the risks.

Its more Wakandans can't be mad because of they chose to do something or not, half would of died regardless. With fighting they came back for the final battle. Sure some died still but there isn't anything to be mad about because that would of happened whether they helped or stayed isolated. Infact had they stayed out
The Avengers would of lost again and they would of been rewiped

[XPac]

Its more Wakandans can't be mad because of they chose to do something or not, half would of died regardless. With fighting they came back for the final battle. Sure some died still but there isn't anything to be mad about because that would of happened whether they helped or stayed isolated. Infact had they stayed out
The Avengers would of lost again and they would of been rewiped

For the people that died from the snap, it wouldn't have mattered and they came back anyways. For the Wakandans that died during the actual invasion in battle ... those deaths would have been avoided had T'Challa not involved Wakanda, and those people as far as I know stayed dead even after the the snap was reversed. So I think that would be the crux of the complaints.

Course, that arguement only applies to Infinity War. End Game is a different matter.

[The Cool Thatguy]

This.

After all, in the comics, Man-Ape is a joke. He's a guy running around in a gorilla suit who was so forgettable that when he came back from the dead, nobody noticed

Meanwhile, in the movies, M'Baku was so popular, he had a YouTube challenge that went viral, something no other MCU character has.

But folks still run with the idea that the MCU characters need to follow their comic-book arcs. Like somehow that's "better". But most of the people who saw the movie don't know or care who Man-Ape IS. Hell, most of them haven't even read the comic... at its over-inflated worst under Coates, the Panther book sold approximately 250,000 copies in its first month.

The Panther movie sold 8,290,500 tickets opening day, in just the US. That's roughly 33x as many people who saw the badass Jabari chieftain. And they paid at least twice as much for the privilege.

Tell me again why M'Baku needs to be a villain?

Because frankly, I want to see another brothers vs. brothers tragic fight ala Cap vs. Iron Man

[Ezyo1000]

Because frankly, I want to see another brothers vs. brothers tragic fight ala Cap vs. Iron Man

It's almost as if, people crave Black dysfunction and need it in order to feel safe... Sad really