Alex Summers: Havok Appreciation 2024 Cry Havok 4 the Nexus being Goblin Prince

[EmeraldGladiator]

My bad for poking the bear and suggesting Lorna as a character on X-Factor. There is a reason why the Lorna thread has 83 pages while Alex is trying to get into the teens. There is a real passion there. Now back to Alex. What mindset do you want for him? Alex has lead quite a few teams but besides the Leonardo, I am the leader I have to protect my team mentality, I rarely recall knowing what makes him tick outside of constantly comparing himself to Scott. I really loved when he gave his raison d'etre for leading the Brotherhood of Mutants. It was more Alex wanting to pick a lane irregardless of Scott. (Now I know it was later revealed to be an undercover mission. However the mindset was internal so I think the mindset was legitimate.) I am sick to death of the little brother, or damaged Alex tropes.

[berserkerclaw]

Yeah no comparong to Scott please thats overdone. I kinda liked the reluctent leader he wad in originsl X-Factor. But i do want him to be confidant and an equal to Warren. And no struggling with his powers.

[From The Shadows]

Yeah no comparong to Scott please thats overdone. I kinda liked the reluctent leader he wad in originsl X-Factor. But i do want him to be confidant and an equal to Warren. And no struggling with his powers.

He used to call him "Cyclops Light" and he couldn't be more opposite. There was quite some bitterness going his way. I agree. No more tortured Alex. It seems to be their fall-back characterization.

[jmc247]

My bad for poking the bear and suggesting Lorna as a character on X-Factor.

Lorna has to be her own character and find herself and her place in the line and goal and so too does Havok.

The focus has to be for Havok fans on the mission of what they want him to accomplish. Not on wanting to drag another character back to him for self-validation. A fandom's self-validation comes from the success of its character. If Havok manages to find a larger mission and goal and believes in and fights for it everything else will fall into place.

The Genosha issue was brought up here and I am reluctant to get into it only to say that it provided for Lorna a third road so far not traveled that isn't Havok's other half who follows him on every wild goose chase he gets up to. It also provided another route for Lorna then Magneto's lesser daughter who exists to respond positively or negatively to her father's antics.

Fans need to think bigger then the past in terms of how Havok wants to change things. Its frankly what Lorna and Havok should have been up to on their own post Decimation not Havok trying to be his brother in space and dragging Lorna along for the ride. The half decade space arc damaged both Lorna and Havok's characters from their visibility, goals, and viability they had in the early 2000s and led to the very messy decade for both in the '10s.

Remember the past, but don't focus on recapturing the past. Try to build new glory and it will be good times for the character.

This thread just became over a page worth of bashing of the Morrison/Austen era just like it was in 2006 by Havok fans who just really wanted everything back like it was in 1982 or 1992. They couldn't conceive of the alternative that both characters would be better off following different visions and goals together or apart.

That would have done much more to advance both characters then trying to recapture the faded images of the past. I think this time around they might be finally doing that and I am fairly certain Lorna will appear on X-Factor if the book survives for more than a year, but if she is to be successful her team (if she has one) can't be exclusive to X-Factor.

Yeah, I don't blame you for not wanting Austen's "run" to be rewritten, because apart from the character derailment of Polaris that required Grant Morrison of all writers to fix, Austen's tenure is a perfect example of when the fanboy in a writer takes over too much, and it should be used to highlight the problems with that happening.

Austen was responding to Morrison’s story not the other way around. The love triangle nonsense was going to happen with or without Genosha as it was baked into Austen’s plans. It just impacted its execution not the main idea. That love triangle was par for the course as one who remembers the Dark Havok, Fatale, Lorna love triangle of the 90s. Lorna’s mind controllings were Claremont’s crappier way to play love triangle angst a decade earlier.

Weak characters with no greater goal need romantic soap to drive their story. That should not be Lorna or Havok going forward.

[WarrensForgottenMemoryLoss]

My bad for poking the bear and suggesting Lorna as a character on X-Factor. There is a reason why the Lorna thread has 83 pages while Alex is trying to get into the teens. There is a real passion there. Now back to Alex. What mindset do you want for him? Alex has lead quite a few teams but besides the Leonardo, I am the leader I have to protect my team mentality, I rarely recall knowing what makes him tick outside of constantly comparing himself to Scott. I really loved when he gave his raison d'etre for leading the Brotherhood of Mutants. It was more Alex wanting to pick a lane irregardless of Scott. (Now I know it was later revealed to be an undercover mission. However the mindset was internal so I think the mindset was legitimate.) I am sick to death of the little brother, or damaged Alex tropes.

Between Akex's often being cordial with villains (the PDA issue of X-Men:legends, the reavers incident, him welcoming juggernaut in the team, sympatizing for Madelyne and the IA smileys in Hellions, etc) and him being, as poinrnted out, very protective of most of his teams, I would like to see him in a "moral center"-type role.

Could be interesting to see, there are precedents, and it would be VERY distinct from Scott's emotional repression that Alex build friendships with everyone on the team and serves as a bit of a diplomat when dealing with other mutant teams, while still be ready to fight.

And yeah, worried about how they will deal with Alex's mental state, and his history of going mind-controlled evil. Would be bizarre to acknowledge none of it on the PR team book, but please, don't make it his entire character.

[Will Jones]

My bad for poking the bear and suggesting Lorna as a character on X-Factor. There is a reason why the Lorna thread has 83 pages while Alex is trying to get into the teens. There is a real passion there. Now back to Alex. What mindset do you want for him? Alex has lead quite a few teams but besides the Leonardo, I am the leader I have to protect my team mentality, I rarely recall knowing what makes him tick outside of constantly comparing himself to Scott. I really loved when he gave his raison d'etre for leading the Brotherhood of Mutants. It was more Alex wanting to pick a lane irregardless of Scott. (Now I know it was later revealed to be an undercover mission. However the mindset was internal so I think the mindset was legitimate.) I am sick to death of the little brother, or damaged Alex tropes.

Nothing to apologize for.

For better or for worse, they're a big part of each other's history, and hopefully, writers will create history for Polaris that doesn't involve Havok, but it is interesting how different the interpretations of the characters' history are.

[kcekada]

Never liked Havok's blue/gold X-Factor uniform. Wish the designers had found a way to incorporate more of his classic look into this uniform, but I guess that would have been difficult. Frankly, they should just ditch those matching uniforms ASAP.

[plasmaintights]

Never liked Havok's blue/gold X-Factor uniform. Wish the designers had found a way to incorporate more of his classic look into this uniform, but I guess that would have been difficult. Frankly, they should just ditch those matching uniforms ASAP.

I like it when he has a trench coat on over whatever uniform he's been given.

the Angel/Havok conversation in the first issue could be really terrific:

Havok: remember when your apoccy kids you didn't know about got a celestial to destroy earth while making a pre-krakoa society for mutants somewhere near Jupiter?

Warren: I think Iwas a blank slate version of myself at that point after getting stabbed with a life seed (or was it a death seed?) because I wiped out a whole town & was ready to kill everyone. Where were you when that happened?

Havok: I might have been in space fighting my genocidal brother I didn't know about who also killed our father who came back to life somehow & no one told me until the Hickman run, or I was mind-controlled (and still in space). When did you go back to being yourself?

Warren: Hard to say. Didn't you turn evil for awhile too?

Havok: Well, we all did for awhile, but I stayed that way because I was somehow still guilty so I stayed evil and got my ex-wife to shrink us down to the micro verse so I could hang out with my brother when he was a bogus revolutionary who'd driven off all his friends. I got made to look like Two-Face for awhile, and I had a kid who got erased in the time stream, I think, because we had to save the earth. Aren't you still sort of evil when you turn blue?

Warren: Not really sure. I'm still rich though. Didn't you try to give bad drugs to turn everyone into mutants against their will, along with Emma and Bastion?

Havok: I was inverted, which was sort of like magical mind-control, and Polaris and Emma fixed it but it didn't take, so I became a Hellion, got killed and resurrected a few times, accidentally killed Kwannon's kid who was a bit of dna in Sinister's computer, and kind of got fixated on my older brother's ex wife clone of Jean who is also the lord of Limbo. Got a gig at the embassy though. Didn't you get killed and resurrected a few times?

Warren: At least as many times as you've been mind-controlled. We should start a team.

Alex: Totally.

Warren: Let's call it x-factor.

Alex: What!? I already did that a few times.

Warren: It'll be different. We'll have different investors.

Alex: Who else will be on the team.

Warren: Some other part-time good/part-time evil mutants you don't really know.

Alex: Does it pay better than working at the Limbo Embassy

Warren: All the money you can fit in your tights

Alex: I'm in

[salarta]

As I made my point, I don't feel I need to repeat myself on things. But I feel that I do have to respond to a couple things before leaving you all to your convos (assuming a reason doesn't come up that I need to post again).

Sorry about my stalker, everyone.

I'm a Polaris fan. I have a pre-existing account on this board. Things were said about Polaris here that I had issue with, so I said something about it. I'd have done the same thing no matter who said it. Or to put it another way, this song isn't about you.

Meanwhile, I've had cases of people making multiple throwaway accounts just to harass me (that I would block, then they'd make another one), and a person who made a throwaway Twitter account with a username targeting me specifically. Among other incidents. Point being, I know what it's like to have someone "stalking" me online, it's very different from this.

Yeah, a 30+ year die hard Polaris fan really got things wrong, I should really listen to someone else to know HOW to like something that I like... I'm a real dunce here, and my personal experiences while the ISSUES WERE BEING RELEASED IN REAL TIME mean absolutely nothing because some dude comes in and mansplains how to be a REAL Polaris fan. Because Final Fantasy 4 or something. Like, what?

I'm not disputing your experience, your "credentials" as it were. Nor am I saying anything about who is or isn't a "real fan." I'm questioning the context and order of events as described.

I had a reason for mentioning my FF4 experience. People who insisted Rosa Farrell was a "worthless damsel in distress" character were people who had played the game. Many of them had played it when it was first released. That direct experience didn't stop them from missing or forgetting key elements. Being there when something was released does matter, but it's not the whole picture. In the same way that modern archaeologists didn't just see someone from the 19th century said a Viking grave was a man, shrug their shoulders and leave it at that. Claims need to be looked into and reassessed from time to time.

More pointedly, a claim was made that people reading the comics back then had no understanding of why Lorna did various things in Austen's run until toward the end of it when readers saw the genocide in Lorna's mind. I disputed that because New X-Men 132 that showed Lorna pulled out of Genosha's ruins as a genocide survivor happened before Austen's run, not after. People reading X-Men at the time should have known that events in New X-Men 132 directly informed how Austen wrote Lorna right after.

One thing you could have said in response is that New X-Men 132 and Austen's run were different books, and casual readers can't be expected to have read a different book prior to Austen's run. That reason doesn't let hardcore fans off the hook, but it does provide a circumstance where your claim could apply. It does show an area where Austen screwed up, by not making Lorna's circumstances clear enough for casual readers until later. It just doesn't mean the genocide was an excuse made after the fact, or that nothing existed at all to inform readers of that context. The run was written from the start with Lorna's trauma from the genocide in mind.

[GoingGreen]

Salarta... let's talk about this where we're supposed to.

Never liked Havok's blue/gold X-Factor uniform. Wish the designers had found a way to incorporate more of his classic look into this uniform, but I guess that would have been difficult. Frankly, they should just ditch those matching uniforms ASAP.

Pssshhh. This was so good. This is close to my real life style. I love it. But they did very quickly take away some details, I assume to make it easier for follow up artists...

[EmeraldGladiator]

Any insight/spoilers from the X-Factor writers on the vibe of the book and character outlines? Maybe character sketches of the teams and maybe a Val or Maddy, X-Factor is the one book I am excited about so looking for any info.

[berserkerclaw]

I like it when he has a trench coat on over whatever uniform he's been given.

the Angel/Havok conversation in the first issue could be really terrific:

Havok: remember when your apoccy kids you didn't know about got a celestial to destroy earth while making a pre-krakoa society for mutants somewhere near Jupiter?

Warren: I think Iwas a blank slate version of myself at that point after getting stabbed with a life seed (or was it a death seed?) because I wiped out a whole town & was ready to kill everyone. Where were you when that happened?

Havok: I might have been in space fighting my genocidal brother I didn't know about who also killed our father who came back to life somehow & no one told me until the Hickman run, or I was mind-controlled (and still in space). When did you go back to being yourself?

Warren: Hard to say. Didn't you turn evil for awhile too?

Havok: Well, we all did for awhile, but I stayed that way because I was somehow still guilty so I stayed evil and got my ex-wife to shrink us down to the micro verse so I could hang out with my brother when he was a bogus revolutionary who'd driven off all his friends. I got made to look like Two-Face for awhile, and I had a kid who got erased in the time stream, I think, because we had to save the earth. Aren't you still sort of evil when you turn blue?

Warren: Not really sure. I'm still rich though. Didn't you try to give bad drugs to turn everyone into mutants against their will, along with Emma and Bastion?

Havok: I was inverted, which was sort of like magical mind-control, and Polaris and Emma fixed it but it didn't take, so I became a Hellion, got killed and resurrected a few times, accidentally killed Kwannon's kid who was a bit of dna in Sinister's computer, and kind of got fixated on my older brother's ex wife clone of Jean who is also the lord of Limbo. Got a gig at the embassy though. Didn't you get killed and resurrected a few times?

Warren: At least as many times as you've been mind-controlled. We should start a team.

Alex: Totally.

Warren: Let's call it x-factor.

Alex: What!? I already did that a few times.

Warren: It'll be different. We'll have different investors.

Alex: Who else will be on the team.

Warren: Some other part-time good/part-time evil mutants you don't really know.

Alex: Does it pay better than working at the Limbo Embassy

Warren: All the money you can fit in your tights

Alex: I'm in

I'd say Alex kinda knows Ferel if his X-Factor every crossed with very Early X-Force at least in passing. He knows who Pyro is. He's met Cecelia at the School. And maybe not personally but he knows of Frenzy I. Pretty sure

[Thirteen]

Tremendous sculpt of Alex by GBPaint Studio.. Well integrated elements of various suits and changeable heads. Pretty impressive for their first attempt at Havok... worth a click thru for the details, options and 360...

[K7P5V]

I'd say Alex kinda knows Ferel if his X-Factor every crossed with very Early X-Force at least in passing.

Yeah! I mean, Feral had her hands full with Rahne. But, I'm sure the members of X-Factor shared intel with one another.

[berserkerclaw]

Oh yeah I remmeber that scene. Sorry I forgot lol