T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2024

[skyvolt2000]

I was also there and the complaints were it was boring, Tchalla was a Mary sue and it was too wordy etc.
then how the run ended was beyond bad.

Two huge difference between Priest era and now.

Priest had to fight with editorial that entire run. Yet made it to 62 issues without variant covers to inflate sales that now goes on for everyone. Also there was no question about WHO the book was about.

Priest was BEYOND professional enough to understand while he did not care for T'Challa-it NEVER showed in his work. He didn't take the concept of Wakanda and decided it had to be like the stereotypical African places with rape camps and other stuff made famous by the one side American view of Africans were nothing more than savages, work with warlords, breeders, abusers of women, HIV infected and forever at war with folks. With the symbol of America punching T'Challa and telling him to go back to Africa.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Priest Panther would be getting ripped today as well. Not saying it wouldnt still be considered good but people would highlight the flaws just as much as the strengths.

Fans were more appreciative and patient back then. We all consumed content differently back in day.

Back in the day you could view it through the incredible lens. Just happy for what it is and not what it isnt. Comes out today its viewed through the "Its good, but let me pick apart this and this and this" lens.

[DigiCom]

It should also be noted that the last BP-centric story before Priest accepted the book was Panther's Prey.

I.e. the story where T'Challa discovers a crack epidemic in Wakanda... Up until the Coates run, it was probably the most infamous Black Panther storyline.

It sometimes feels like people take what Priest did for granted when his reinvention of the Panther book was as ground-breaking (in its own way) as the Simonson Thor or Miller Daredevil.

And in the last 8 years, Marvel has done its best to drag the character back to C-list status, if not lower.

[DigiCom]

"Its good, but let me pick apart this and this and this" lens.

Which BP run of the last decade would you call "good, but.."?

Coates' run was an incoherent socio-political screed and mostly carried by the art. Ridley spent his ENTIRE run having characters explain why T'Challa was a bad person. And Ewing wrote Batman in Chicago fanfic.

The issues people have with these books go beyond nit-picking.

Listen, I'm not going to say Priest's run was perfect. The non-linear stuff was a real pain after a while, and his plots could get needlessly complex. But for the first 50 issues, there was NEVER any doubt that T'Challa was the focus of the book. And even during the Cole era, he had an influence (albeit a somewhat confusing one).

Priest never loved T'Challa. In fact, he didn't even pitch the book. But he did his best to WRITE T'Challa, not write around him.

[Ture]

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Ready to get his hands bloody, Doom will be drawn into the vampire onslaught as it intensifies. And with Doom among the greatest sorcerers on Earth, his magical abilities may come in handy as the Master of Mystic Arts finds himself and the presumed safety of his Sanctum Sanctorum targeted by vampires.

courtesy of
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...u-need-to-know

T'Challa the Black Panther should have that kind of red in his ledger.

[DigiCom]

T'Challa the Black Panther should have that kind of red in his ledger.

When Knull invaded... he did. *waves at Redjack*.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Which BP run of the last decade would you call "good, but.."?

Coates' run was an incoherent socio-political screed and mostly carried by the art. Ridley spent his ENTIRE run having characters explain why T'Challa was a bad person. And Ewing wrote Batman in Chicago fanfic.

The issues people have with these books go beyond nit-picking.

Listen, I'm not going to say Priest's run was perfect. The non-linear stuff was a real pain after a while, and his plots could get needlessly complex. But for the first 50 issues, there was NEVER any doubt that T'Challa was the focus of the book. And even during the Cole era, he had an influence (albeit a somewhat confusing one).

Priest never loved T'Challa. In fact, he didn't even pitch the book. But he did his best to WRITE T'Challa, not write around him.

Here's the thing. The conversation on Coates Panther is so negative and toxic I would think fans would rate it 1 or 2 out of 10. And we know thats not the reality. So why is there never anything said about the positives? Because negativity consumes the conversation.

Bottom line is if Priest stuff came out and is really good there still will be an emphasis on what didnt work or what points should be deducted from it. Thats the nature of the beast today.

[Ezyo1000]

Nothing will satisfy some of these BP fans.
I’ve been reading priest BP and if his BP was released today a lot folk will have the same complaints.
Especially towards the end of his run which was just goofy and bad .

...

I was also there and the complaints were it was boring, Tchalla was a Mary sue and it was too wordy etc.
then how the run ended was beyond bad.

Something tells me your full of it. These are not the same complaints at all the Mary Sue complaints only came from Priest and Hudlins runs from. The haters. Those are the gators. The complaints we have had since 2016 have been quite the opposite, with T'Challa being completely disrespected and sidelined in his own book in favor of who gives a isht characters who don't matter.

Priest and Hudlin = haters hating a competent T'Challa written in character with his debut from Lee and Kirby.

Coates and friends= fans legitimately upset by the completely removal of T'Challas core characteristics and agency in favor of their ishtty pet characters that no one cares about

[DigiCom]

Here's the thing. The conversation on Coates Panther is so negative and toxic I would think fans would rate it 1 or 2 out of 10. And we know thats not the reality. So why is there never anything said about the positives? Because negativity consumes the conversation.

Bottom line is if Priest stuff came out and is really good there still will be an emphasis on what didnt work or what points should be deducted from it. Thats the nature of the beast today.

Yeah, I hear LOTS of those complaints about Moon Knight. Or Immortal Hulk. Or Venom. So many posts nit-picking little details...

Oh, wait, no. That's BS.

And I noticed you dodged my question. WHAT BP story in the last 8 years was "good, but"? What arc was dragged down by nitpicking?

Receipts, please.

[Ezyo1000]

Here's the thing. The conversation on Coates Panther is so negative and toxic I would think fans would rate it 1 or 2 out of 10. And we know thats not the reality. So why is there never anything said about the positives? Because negativity consumes the conversation.

Bottom line is if Priest stuff came out and is really good there still will be an emphasis on what didnt work or what points should be deducted from it. Thats the nature of the beast today.

What was good about Coates run?

Aesthetics. Brian stelfreeze was KILLING it with his artwork, and while there were misses (the MAs outfits, Shuris overcomplicated design, and T'Challa looking old AF) overall, his art really popped, and made Wakanda feel unique and wholey afrofuturistic.

The next thing, T'Challas natural advancement of his tech and powerset via force push... Again courtesy of Stelfreeze. We know VB is the most sought after and valuable metal on earth and it has virtually endless capability and uses. We saw how well T'Challa utilized it in his tech and arsenal and the natural evolution of VB was if it can absorb energy, what does it do with it? Enter the storing and release via force push. The ability to absorb damage and redirect the energy, as well as inspire future writers and media for T'Challa to use it to augment his speed and striking power, was a brilliant display of creativity and ingenuity of the new power (when not used as a crutch like Coates did) that was very inline with how Priest and tona lesser extent, Hudlin, utilized T'Challas gear.

Finally, Shuris own lane. Despite the fact that Coates absolutely butchered the characteristics of Shuri and T'Challa, making T'Challa the one who "wears his heart on his sleeve" and Shuri the "pragmatic" despite this CLEARLY not being the case as there personalities were swapped, Coates did a good job setting Shuri up to be different from T'Challa, even if her powerset was a rip off from his KotD.

Because KotD was so little explored and T'Challa already had a more clearly defined powerset, this allowed Shuri to venture into an avenue that T'Challa didn't already occupy, making her have her own lane and powerset that could benefit T'Challa and the story going forward. By having Shuri be more mystical and magical in nature, it allowed for each to have a specialty and be different yet still be useful to T'Challa going forward.

A slight bonus, for the briefest of time before he utterly ruined it with his bullisht, Kid Bast. This was a nice change of pace from what we saw with Bast (however brief) and I appreciated it for seeing a more "spunky" side to the goddess, and would've much preferred she stayed that way over non-Wakandan, terrorist, Nazi sympathizing, rape sympathizing Zenzi becoming bast avatar, just to add more insult to injury.

That's it. Coates entire run was a series of cool ideas us fans wanted explored for T'Challa, executed in the WORST possible ways

[Username taken]

I was THERE when the Priest run was released. Hell, I moderated his message board. While there were the occasional complaints (mostly about gadgets and the presence of Ross), nobody was complaining about the lack of feats or T'Challa being jobbed to make guest stars look good. Actually, the biggest controversy I recall was the time Thor was shot in the head.

For good or for ill, in those days, Black Panther was about, well, BLACK PANTHER. Not "exploring Wakanda", explaining why monarchy was bad, or hyping up a character from a completely different franchise.

And do I complain about Storm? Sure... because every time she turns up, SHE becomes the focus, and T'Challa is a supporting character in his own book. And then her fans come out proclaiming what a great story it is, and she's being shown the respect she deserves as the "Hadari Yao".

In a thread to appreciate T'challa. Who rarely gets any respect at all in his own books. Including UBP, where he needs to "learn a lesson" for months while Shuri & Okoye run the country. Yay!

Man, that comment took about Thor reminded me of the old forum days. I stil remember how bentover people got over " the infamous BP armbar"..lol. The old forums were quite different back then.

[Username taken]

...



Something tells me your full of it. These are not the same complaints at all the Mary Sue complaints only came from Priest and Hudlins runs from. The haters. Those are the gators. The complaints we have had since 2016 have been quite the opposite, with T'Challa being completely disrespected and sidelined in his own book in favor of who gives a isht characters who don't matter.

Priest and Hudlin = haters hating a competent T'Challa written in character with his debut from Lee and Kirby.

Coates and friends= fans legitimately upset by the completely removal of T'Challas core characteristics and agency in favor of their ishtty pet characters that no one cares about

Agreed, we need to be careful and not mix-up comicsgate nonsense into the discussion.

The gators were the ones complaining that BP hadn't "earned" (the context in the way that word is used is by the right-wing is pretty much a racist dog-whistle now) his status probably until the movie blew-up.

Our criticism (at least on this forum) started after Coates started on the book and proceeded to dismantle everything Wakanda related. Every single arc was some sort of sociopolitical commentary that used Wakanda as a proxy. From rape camps to the Wakandans being colonizers, there was an undercurrent of negativity that was impossible to ignore.

Ridley being the self-hating individual he is proceeded to completely destroy T'Challa, turned his country against him and stripped him of his title. He also gave us that infamous panel of Captain America beating T'Challa so badly that his face and lips were swollen like he was a runaway slave or something. Coates treated T'Challa like how the gators viewed him.

When you add-in Avengers vs X-men, the last 12 or so years have been dedicated to the deconstruction of Wakanda and T'Challa himself. Very little has been done to build up the character beyond being the Emperor of an Integalactic Empire that he knew nothing about and was established by colonialist Wakandans. It's all a complete mess.

[Marvell2100]

Here's the thing. The conversation on Coates Panther is so negative and toxic I would think fans would rate it 1 or 2 out of 10. And we know thats not the reality. So why is there never anything said about the positives? Because negativity consumes the conversation.

Bottom line is if Priest stuff came out and is really good there still will be an emphasis on what didnt work or what points should be deducted from it. Thats the nature of the beast today.

Positives from Coates' run: He worked with some pretty good artists. That's it.

[Marvell2100]

Yeah, I hear LOTS of those complaints about Moon Knight. Or Immortal Hulk. Or Venom. So many posts nit-picking little details...

Oh, wait, no. That's BS.

And I noticed you dodged my question. WHAT BP story in the last 8 years was "good, but"? What arc was dragged down by nitpicking?

Receipts, please.

Nothing good came out of the last three BP solos other than they ended.

[Devaishwarya]

Some (not all) would say a positive that came out of Coates' run was Storm's Godhead being acknowledged.

I would say one good that came out of Ridley's run was her decidedly ending their relationship. Now I can pick at nits and say that scene between the two could/should have been handled much better but...the books were dumpster fuel so that would have been asking too much. (Or am I mixing it up with Vita's story?)

For Eve's run...Trans representation? (Because I really cannot remember anyone else, even T'Challa is drawing a visual blank)