Oh My Stars and Garters! Hank McCoy, the Beast Appreciation 2024!

[Mungho]

Yep, it was all arranged. It’s why all the other Defenders were taken off the table so abruptly and “permanently” so they didn’t need to come up with a reason for the team disbanding. But I STILL don’t understand why Sassafras was clearly expected to go with them but didn’t.

Oh, I just thought of something. Good-Beast has the memories of when he still had Sassafras, right? Is he going to wonder where his dog is? Ugh, Percy has opened a can of worms doing this to Hank. I hope it can be fixed.

[SturdyMike89]

Oh, I just thought of something. Good-Beast has the memories of when he still had Sassafras, right? Is he going to wonder where his dog is? Ugh, Percy has opened a can of worms doing this to Hank. I hope it can be fixed.

It is going to be a long project to get Hank back to good, but if anyone can do it, it is Jed MacKay. He made me like Moon Knight a feat I once thought impossible and caused me to come back over to Black Cat's side which after Slott did some doing. I don't expect him to address much of what happened at first, but I know that he will weave threads that will bear fruit in the future. Since adjective less X-Men takes place in Alaska, which is not far from Russia, maybe we will see Hank have to deal with the ramifications of evil self locking so many Russian mutants up.

[Mungho]

Guess I'll upload some random images of Avengers' Hank punching, kicking, and flying:

[Ogrebear]

Beast by Alex Ross.jpg

Beast by Alex Ross.

Nice take on the classic Beast.

[Mungho]

Beast by Alex Ross.

Nice take on the classic Beast.

That's just lovely! I love paintings in particular, seeing artist's different takes of Hank!

I'd been avoiding social-media since settling in my new job, but I decided to pop on reddit, and people still have a hate-boner for this character. And implying there's something wrong with you if you still like him. *sigh*

I did find a VERY interesting theory on there. When Hank was reluctantly working with Dark Beast during decimation, he gave Hank a serum that contained memories of his work(I cut the intermediate pages, since I can't post more then 3 images at a time):







Do you think, that the serum kept affecting Hank, affecting his mind and slowly making him like Dark Beast?

[Ogrebear]

Do you think, that the serum kept affecting Hank, affecting his mind and slowly making him like Dark Beast?

If a writer wanted to work with that it would be a great spot to start, esp since a lot of the 'dark' things Beast is accused of happened post this, and some of it under great stress.

A sharp writer might pull a slight retcon and have Dark Beast mind swap with Hank when he knew his body was dying ala Superior Spider-Man and 'real' Hank has in fact been just a head all this time, and bares no responsibility for anything after DB 'died'; he would also be 'up to date' on events so to speak.

[Hakka84]

I would not dislike this way, to fix Hank and "clean" him.

[Mungho]

Wait a minute, remember the Talon/Laura problem of having two sets of a single mutant? One Laura was changed by spending so long in the vault that you could say she was a different person then the one that was resurrected by Cerbera. That's why it was possible for there to be two Lauras. What if the same happened with Hank? He did start acting different sometime after Decimation. What if because of DB's serum, over the years, by the time of Krakao, Hank is now some strange amalgamation of DB and 616-Beast, a different entity then the original? It would explain so much(well, as much as any explanation could with Percy's demented writing).

This explanation isn't perfect, it still leads to Hank losing 40 years of his memories. But if we could say the true essence of the original Hank, was 'sloughed' off by the DB-corrupted Hank sometime prior to Krakoa, we could say that Cerebra found the soul of the original Hank and put it into the clone body under Sage's direction(though she wouldn't have known this was the original Hank. This Hank only has his memories of just after his Defenders days because the other memories had been deleted by bad-Beast, but his soul still remembers every else. I've heard some say the soul is memory, he just can't access his memories because his organic brain doesn't.
Perhaps Jean could help him unlock the memories of his soul?

Sorry, that was kind of long.

[Havok83]

Laura and Talon both existed bc they resurrected her without confirming her death. They both co-existed not bc they were viewed as a different person, but rather bc they werent going to kill one bc that mistake was found. They had an agreement that should one of them die, only the original would be resurrected. This isnt anything like whats happened with Beast. The Cerebro backups and resurrection stuff is off the tables so I dont see that being used and it sounds overly complicated. I think they are moving past needing to come up with a reason to explain and redeem him. Clone Beast is going to be our Beast going forward.

I think McKay will play with the clone Beast and what it means for him to exist in this new world here he has lost time. There's an interesting story to be told there with how he interacts and reacts to things. If and when they want to restore the past 35 years, I can see them bringing back the OG Beast and have the two merge somehow. He'll have the memories of all that he lost but with the personality of who has become in present day

[Mungho]

Laura and Talon both existed bc they resurrected her without confirming her death. They both co-existed not bc they were viewed as a different person, but rather bc they werent going to kill one bc that mistake was found. They had an agreement that should one of them die, only the original would be resurrected. This isnt anything like whats happened with Beast. The Cerebro backups and resurrection stuff is off the tables so I dont see that being used and it sounds overly complicated. I think they are moving past needing to come up with a reason to explain and redeem him. Clone Beast is going to be our Beast going forward.

I think McKay will play with the clone Beast and what it means for him to exist in this new world here he has lost time. There's an interesting story to be told there with how he interacts and reacts to things. If and when they want to restore the past 35 years, I can see them bringing back the OG Beast and have the two merge somehow. He'll have the memories of all that he lost but with the personality of who has become in present day

The problem with that is, if they merge, that means good-Beast will now share the burden of what bad-Beast has done. Just passing on the memories? Good-Beast won't have lived them, they'll just be kind of there. That's why I'm trying to come up with some explanation how we could have the pre-Krakoa Beast back without all of Percy's baggage. Of course, the best thing is to just sweep Percy's run under the rug and forget it happened.

And yes, the Talon/Laura situation is similar due to the resurrecting of someone who was already alive. Someone else came up with that Laura theory to explain how there could be two proper Lauras with the same soul Otherwise, it brings up disturbing questions on the nature of souls. They didn't confirm her death, so they used Cerebra and according to the theory, it was able to make another Laura because the other one had already become a distinct being. Of course, it wasn't well thought out and they should pretend that didn't happen either.

[Hakka84]

(...)
This Hank only has his memories of just after his Defenders days because the other memories had been deleted by bad-Beast, but his soul still remembers every else. I've heard some say the soul is memory, he just can't access his memories because his organic brain doesn't.
Perhaps Jean could help him unlock the memories of his soul?

In canon we had a perfect example in Warren. He was literally fried by the Life Seed and reborn a new persona. Rachel herself confirmed, after scanning sessions, that there was nothing of Warren in new!Warren. New!Warren had no memory of anything about his canon life.
All of a sudden, and all off panel, not only he returned the same Warren but regained all of his memories. One canon fix to this plot hole could be what you suggested, Mungho, that the soul keeps the memories. Which also would explain how Betsy carried around her own pre-bodyswap memories when she was put into Kwannon's body, and kept them when she lost Kwannon's body in Mystery in Madripoor (and why Kwannon remembers her pre-bodyswap drama life despite everything happened to her).

So. In-universe, your explanation could easily work, Mungho.

[Havok83]

The problem with that is, if they merge, that means good-Beast will now share the burden of what bad-Beast has done. Just passing on the memories? Good-Beast won't have lived them, they'll just be kind of there. That's why I'm trying to come up with some explanation how we could have the pre-Krakoa Beast back without all of Percy's baggage. Of course, the best thing is to just sweep Percy's run under the rug and forget it happened.

And yes, the Talon/Laura situation is similar due to the resurrecting of someone who was already alive. Someone else came up with that Laura theory to explain how there could be two proper Lauras with the same soul Otherwise, it brings up disturbing questions on the nature of souls. They didn't confirm her death, so they used Cerebra and according to the theory, it was able to make another Laura because the other one had already become a distinct being. Of course, it wasn't well thought out and they should pretend that didn't happen either.

I dont think thats a problem as he should share the burden. There's no clean or easy way out of this mess and Beast should be held accountable for his actions. I dont see others doing it, but if he remembers what he did, feels guilty and strives to be better, the to me at least thats better than nothing.

No one talks about souls. Thats an aspect that just tends to get ignored and ultimately doesnt matter much. They definitely explore this with the Laura and just treated them as two seperate characters in their books. It was a disservice to her to keep them seperate and not address this

[nj06]

That's just lovely! I love paintings in particular, seeing artist's different takes of Hank!

I'd been avoiding social-media since settling in my new job, but I decided to pop on reddit, and people still have a hate-boner for this character. And implying there's something wrong with you if you still like him. *sigh*

I did find a VERY interesting theory on there. When Hank was reluctantly working with Dark Beast during decimation, he gave Hank a serum that contained memories of his work(I cut the intermediate pages, since I can't post more then 3 images at a time):







Do you think, that the serum kept affecting Hank, affecting his mind and slowly making him like Dark Beast?

I feel like this could definitely could have been the reason as to why Beast became so villainous. It would also be a nice way to bring back Dark Beast as a major villain.

[Mungho]

I dont think thats a problem as he should share the burden. There's no clean or easy way out of this mess and Beast should be held accountable for his actions. I dont see others doing it, but if he remembers what he did, feels guilty and strives to be better, the to me at least thats better than nothing.

No one talks about souls. Thats an aspect that just tends to get ignored and ultimately doesnt matter much. They definitely explore this with the Laura and just treated them as two seperate characters in their books. It was a disservice to her to keep them seperate and not address this

I agree. Laura shouldn't have been subjected to that storyline. In fact, I think a lot of characters did things during this Krakoan era that people don't like or was a disservice to the character.

Perhaps I'm over-thinking it, a bad habit of mine. In the long scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. I just got upset by people dragging Beast on Reddit. I'm staying away from Reddit from now on.

[Mungho]

Some covers(variants, I believe) from MacKay's upcoming X-Men book:





Ohhhhh, Hank, you look so fine in these. People have been complaining about Stegman's art, but I'm willing to give him a chance. It helps I like everyone on the new team, EXCEPT Quire. I'm also a little iffy on Scott, who went the entire Krakoan era without talking to Hank. Surely he must have heard what was going on from Jean? Yeah, characters had to stay in their own books except in brief instances, but it doesn't make sense according to the character.